<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Consequentialism and Animals</title>
	<atom:link href="http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 03:15:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Common Meanings Of Cat Behavior &#124; XpressYourDay</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73812</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Common Meanings Of Cat Behavior &#124; XpressYourDay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Consequentialism and Animals « Vox Nova [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Consequentialism and Animals « Vox Nova [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73809</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 03:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I have a draft of a post on vegetarianism sitting around somewhere. It includes resources for people thinking about giving up meat, RedMaistre. I&#039;ll see if I can find it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I have a draft of a post on vegetarianism sitting around somewhere. It includes resources for people thinking about giving up meat, RedMaistre. I&#8217;ll see if I can find it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerald A. Naus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73788</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald A. Naus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a vegetarian. I had lapsed for a bit a couple of years ago (with guilty feelings chasing burger consumption. I felt cows were giving me dirty looks), until I saw a whole roasted piglet on a cruise ship. I  avoid killing in most cases. When we bought our new house and I transformed the backyard into a mini orchard (including a Buddha&#039;s Hand tree)/vegetable garden, I did slay black widows but that was a just war :) We&#039;ll be self-sufficient in terms of most fruits and many vegetables. Many of them cannot be found in stores and/or are highly expensive (various kinds of Japanese fruit, eg - but even regular berries and tomatoes are pricy) - and they are grown organically and will be harvested when ready, not when the truck is ready to go. I find that meat is never a safe bet for taste, but fruit/veggies always are. I recommend growing food, one gets really tuned into nature.

Many animals are sufficiently complex to have personalities - our 4 cats are very distinctly different from another. We have an emotional overeater, a drama queen with grandiose gestures who annually grows tufts to increase his cuteness, a thieving, re-arranging cat with poor hygiene and an easily startled, emotionally needy quasi-dog. Said Spaz (nomen est omen) is snuggled up against me, purring, as I type. He has facial expressions that go beyond mere anthropomorphizing. When I wasn&#039;t a vegetarian, I was a hypocrite - I&#039;d eat stuff that doesn&#039;t look like a being - salami, bacon etc. Who of us would eat meat if he or she had to kill the animal ?

There&#039;s a bizarre group of former vegetarians who&#039;ve become deluxe butchers and their aficionados- they only eat animals who were living a splendid, free-range etc. life. Now, to be facetious, couldn&#039;t a case be made that killing those animals is particularly cruel, and that eating a factory-raised animal is a form of euthanasia ?  

I know animals feel pain and discomfort. I have bathed cats before. Above mentioned poor hygiene cat screams like a baby and will resent you for a day or two. 

Animals show affection and are selective about it. They won&#039;t go near some, others they are drawn to. My cats like my wife a lot, but I&#039;m their favorite. They will go to her chair for a bit, but I frequently find myself in my arm chair with 4 cats on me. I avoid calling them when they&#039;re with her (cause they&#039;d come), so my wife doesn&#039;t get too jealous.

Pigs could exhibit many of those behaviors, they&#039;re smart. If I don&#039;t eat my cats, how justify eating a pig ? 

Denis Leary:
&quot;We only want to save the cute animals, don&#039;t we? Yeah. Why don&#039;t we just have animal auditions. Line &#039;em up one by one and interview them individually. &quot;What are you?&quot; &quot;I&#039;m an otter.&quot; &quot;And what do you do?&quot; &quot;I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.&quot; &quot;You&#039;re free to go.&quot; &quot;And what are you?&quot; &quot;I&#039;m a cow.&quot; &quot;Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal!&quot; &quot;But I&#039;m an animal.&quot; &quot;You&#039;re a baseball glove! Get on that truck!&quot; &quot;I&#039;m an animal, I have rights!&quot; &quot;Yeah, here&#039;s yer ****ing cousin, get on the ****ing truck, pal!&quot; We kill the cows to make jackets out of them and then we kill each other for the jackets we made out of the cows.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a vegetarian. I had lapsed for a bit a couple of years ago (with guilty feelings chasing burger consumption. I felt cows were giving me dirty looks), until I saw a whole roasted piglet on a cruise ship. I  avoid killing in most cases. When we bought our new house and I transformed the backyard into a mini orchard (including a Buddha&#8217;s Hand tree)/vegetable garden, I did slay black widows but that was a just war :) We&#8217;ll be self-sufficient in terms of most fruits and many vegetables. Many of them cannot be found in stores and/or are highly expensive (various kinds of Japanese fruit, eg &#8211; but even regular berries and tomatoes are pricy) &#8211; and they are grown organically and will be harvested when ready, not when the truck is ready to go. I find that meat is never a safe bet for taste, but fruit/veggies always are. I recommend growing food, one gets really tuned into nature.</p>
<p>Many animals are sufficiently complex to have personalities &#8211; our 4 cats are very distinctly different from another. We have an emotional overeater, a drama queen with grandiose gestures who annually grows tufts to increase his cuteness, a thieving, re-arranging cat with poor hygiene and an easily startled, emotionally needy quasi-dog. Said Spaz (nomen est omen) is snuggled up against me, purring, as I type. He has facial expressions that go beyond mere anthropomorphizing. When I wasn&#8217;t a vegetarian, I was a hypocrite &#8211; I&#8217;d eat stuff that doesn&#8217;t look like a being &#8211; salami, bacon etc. Who of us would eat meat if he or she had to kill the animal ?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a bizarre group of former vegetarians who&#8217;ve become deluxe butchers and their aficionados- they only eat animals who were living a splendid, free-range etc. life. Now, to be facetious, couldn&#8217;t a case be made that killing those animals is particularly cruel, and that eating a factory-raised animal is a form of euthanasia ?  </p>
<p>I know animals feel pain and discomfort. I have bathed cats before. Above mentioned poor hygiene cat screams like a baby and will resent you for a day or two. </p>
<p>Animals show affection and are selective about it. They won&#8217;t go near some, others they are drawn to. My cats like my wife a lot, but I&#8217;m their favorite. They will go to her chair for a bit, but I frequently find myself in my arm chair with 4 cats on me. I avoid calling them when they&#8217;re with her (cause they&#8217;d come), so my wife doesn&#8217;t get too jealous.</p>
<p>Pigs could exhibit many of those behaviors, they&#8217;re smart. If I don&#8217;t eat my cats, how justify eating a pig ? </p>
<p>Denis Leary:<br />
&#8220;We only want to save the cute animals, don&#8217;t we? Yeah. Why don&#8217;t we just have animal auditions. Line &#8216;em up one by one and interview them individually. &#8220;What are you?&#8221; &#8220;I&#8217;m an otter.&#8221; &#8220;And what do you do?&#8221; &#8220;I swim around on my back and do cute little human things with my hands.&#8221; &#8220;You&#8217;re free to go.&#8221; &#8220;And what are you?&#8221; &#8220;I&#8217;m a cow.&#8221; &#8220;Get in the ****ing truck, ok pal!&#8221; &#8220;But I&#8217;m an animal.&#8221; &#8220;You&#8217;re a baseball glove! Get on that truck!&#8221; &#8220;I&#8217;m an animal, I have rights!&#8221; &#8220;Yeah, here&#8217;s yer ****ing cousin, get on the ****ing truck, pal!&#8221; We kill the cows to make jackets out of them and then we kill each other for the jackets we made out of the cows.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Karlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 23:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Frank!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Frank!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73781</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 22:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73781</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As one who has always had a &quot;pitiful affection for animals&quot; all I can say is Great Post!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one who has always had a &#8220;pitiful affection for animals&#8221; all I can say is Great Post!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73729</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Karlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RedMaistre,

I think practices of human respect to and for animals, and our stewardship of them and not mere use of them should be raised higher in doctrinal status. The practical ramifications of it should be discussed further. My post on vegetarian thought is that it should be seen as a virtue, and we should find a way to deal with the issue in charity. Here is that post: http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/19/in-all-things-charity-on-the-pursuit-of-the-virtues-with-a-special-reflection-on-christian-vegetarianism/

So, I think the issue is -- the principles are easier to promote, and from there, I think the Spirit can direct for further development in the right way. But it is also true, that in the modern world, as many authors also point out (like Berkman) that things are different from the past, and just as Pope JPII raised the question of the death penalty in the light of the modern age, we can bring up the question of vegetarianism in the same way:

&quot;It has become increasingly evident that in our culture that, for the most part, the killing of animals is superfluous and gratuitous: as such, it is part of a culture of death. The bottom line is this: in the Western cultural context to which Cardinal Bernadin and Pope John Paul II are addressing their concerns, humans -- with rare exception  -- have absolutely no need to eat animals to survive and flourish. Thus, there is no reason to perpetuate the evil of the slaughter of countless animals for our daily sustenance. Rather, if Christians are to be faithful to the call to be witnesses to a consistent gospel of life, and if we are to speak prophetically as Christians to our culture, we will not want to cause needless suffering and death to animals.&quot;  John Berkman, &quot;Is the Consistent Ethic of Life Consistent?&quot; in &lt;i&gt;Animals on the Agenda&lt;/i&gt;. Ed. Andrew Linzey and Dorothy Yamamoto (London: SCM Press, 1998), 245.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RedMaistre,</p>
<p>I think practices of human respect to and for animals, and our stewardship of them and not mere use of them should be raised higher in doctrinal status. The practical ramifications of it should be discussed further. My post on vegetarian thought is that it should be seen as a virtue, and we should find a way to deal with the issue in charity. Here is that post: <a href="http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/19/in-all-things-charity-on-the-pursuit-of-the-virtues-with-a-special-reflection-on-christian-vegetarianism/" rel="nofollow">http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/19/in-all-things-charity-on-the-pursuit-of-the-virtues-with-a-special-reflection-on-christian-vegetarianism/</a></p>
<p>So, I think the issue is &#8212; the principles are easier to promote, and from there, I think the Spirit can direct for further development in the right way. But it is also true, that in the modern world, as many authors also point out (like Berkman) that things are different from the past, and just as Pope JPII raised the question of the death penalty in the light of the modern age, we can bring up the question of vegetarianism in the same way:</p>
<p>&#8220;It has become increasingly evident that in our culture that, for the most part, the killing of animals is superfluous and gratuitous: as such, it is part of a culture of death. The bottom line is this: in the Western cultural context to which Cardinal Bernadin and Pope John Paul II are addressing their concerns, humans &#8212; with rare exception  &#8212; have absolutely no need to eat animals to survive and flourish. Thus, there is no reason to perpetuate the evil of the slaughter of countless animals for our daily sustenance. Rather, if Christians are to be faithful to the call to be witnesses to a consistent gospel of life, and if we are to speak prophetically as Christians to our culture, we will not want to cause needless suffering and death to animals.&#8221;  John Berkman, &#8220;Is the Consistent Ethic of Life Consistent?&#8221; in <i>Animals on the Agenda</i>. Ed. Andrew Linzey and Dorothy Yamamoto (London: SCM Press, 1998), 245.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RedMaistre</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73728</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RedMaistre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you think vegitarianism and other practices working towards humane treatment of animals should be raised to formal teachings of the Church or should it best remain a &quot;radical&quot; call just at the borders of the Church and the world ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think vegitarianism and other practices working towards humane treatment of animals should be raised to formal teachings of the Church or should it best remain a &#8220;radical&#8221; call just at the borders of the Church and the world ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73726</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Karlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RedMaistre,

I&#039;m also at CUA (but rarely on campus, since I&#039;m at the dissertation stage). There are some good Catholics there who support animal rights-- John Berkman used to teach here, though he moved on to another university. I had one class with him -- sadly, it didn&#039;t deal with animals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RedMaistre,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also at CUA (but rarely on campus, since I&#8217;m at the dissertation stage). There are some good Catholics there who support animal rights&#8211; John Berkman used to teach here, though he moved on to another university. I had one class with him &#8212; sadly, it didn&#8217;t deal with animals.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73725</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Karlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael,

You are welcome. I think I told you when we met, that I was hoping to get some out. It&#039;s a serious concern, and one I have thought about for over a decade, though until recently, have not written as much on the theme as I have wanted to. I wrote a few small things, and put in elements of my views here and there as secondary points, but I thought it was time to do some posts bringing animals to the front and center.  It is helping me put to words and strengthen the ideas I&#039;ve had, and I hope comments  (like RedMaistres) will add to that so that one day, I can have the general outline of a systematic theology on animals done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>You are welcome. I think I told you when we met, that I was hoping to get some out. It&#8217;s a serious concern, and one I have thought about for over a decade, though until recently, have not written as much on the theme as I have wanted to. I wrote a few small things, and put in elements of my views here and there as secondary points, but I thought it was time to do some posts bringing animals to the front and center.  It is helping me put to words and strengthen the ideas I&#8217;ve had, and I hope comments  (like RedMaistres) will add to that so that one day, I can have the general outline of a systematic theology on animals done.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RedMaistre</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73724</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RedMaistre]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is elevating to hear of the existence of a practing Catholic veginatrianism. My University and parochial church is full of &quot;species&quot; supremicists, more inspired by paganism and modernity (I think) then whatever Genesis says on the matter. My sister lives by vegitarianism and I hope to start soon on the same line of action.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is elevating to hear of the existence of a practing Catholic veginatrianism. My University and parochial church is full of &#8220;species&#8221; supremicists, more inspired by paganism and modernity (I think) then whatever Genesis says on the matter. My sister lives by vegitarianism and I hope to start soon on the same line of action.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73723</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Karlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73723</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[RedMaistre

I have done a few posts on animals, and plan to do more -- the question of the practical application goes into many issues. You are right to bring it up. I have said, and will say many times again, we have a great duty to such care, to work for their betterment, to be mediators to them. Nonetheless, I am right now trying to get some principles established and hope from them, people can begin to explore, with their own prudence, the practical applications of these points. In a future post, I might get to some more suggestions (beyond what I have written elsewhere), but in the mean time, I really felt the need to help give the foundation by which such posts can rest.

And as for vegetarianism, I am vegetarian in the tradition of St Francis of Assisi. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RedMaistre</p>
<p>I have done a few posts on animals, and plan to do more &#8212; the question of the practical application goes into many issues. You are right to bring it up. I have said, and will say many times again, we have a great duty to such care, to work for their betterment, to be mediators to them. Nonetheless, I am right now trying to get some principles established and hope from them, people can begin to explore, with their own prudence, the practical applications of these points. In a future post, I might get to some more suggestions (beyond what I have written elsewhere), but in the mean time, I really felt the need to help give the foundation by which such posts can rest.</p>
<p>And as for vegetarianism, I am vegetarian in the tradition of St Francis of Assisi. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2010/03/12/consequentialism-and-animals/#comment-73722</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=12134#comment-73722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for all these posts on animals lately, Henry. You know I&#039;m in agreement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all these posts on animals lately, Henry. You know I&#8217;m in agreement.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

