Comments on: God and Logic

By: Ronald King

Ronald King — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:05:59 +0000

Sam, What I was attempting to get at is the human being comes into being as all other life forms from this chaos. So we have within us the seemingly observable chaotic opposing forces that have resulted in our creation and an instinctive response to form bonds within this chaos that give us a better chance for survival. In that instinctive response to create bonds there seems to be a logic formed from the basis of our most primitive survival mechanisms. This logic would seem to be linear, concrete, black and white with laws that are designed to keep everything in a “logical” order–predictable. The intellect is then engaged to support the logical reality of these survival instincts.
There are 7 basic primitive neuropathways that have been identified within the primitive structures of the brain that are associated with socialization. These same pathways exist within all mammals. They are the circuits of rage, fear, separation distress, nurturing, lust, fun and drive. The names given these pathways are simplified and their functioning is also simplified so as to attempt to keep this brief. These pathways have their own particular drive based on primarily survival instincts and consequently these are the most powerful emotions we will experience and which will influence us unless there is an internal or external force which regulates their expression.
I must stop for now because there is too much that needs to be explained to make a clearer statement. Suffice it to say that any tradition or logic that imposes law as a form of structure operates from the unknown fear that forms the basis of these powerful primitive survival pathways. Most of the people I know in positions of power operate from the safety of the left prefrontal area of the brain which specializes in logical, linear, concrete thinking with the added ability of language to solidify the unknown instinctive foundation of unresolved fear that drives the higher thought processes of the brain.
This is the attempt to create order out of chaos. There is very little tolerance for ambiguity.
God’s Love changes everything. That is it for now.

By: brettsalkeld

brettsalkeld — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:07:07 +0000

Thank you Sam. Many errors and confusions are founded in poor epistemology so I applaud your efforts here. I wonder what might turn up if you put your ideas about logic into conversation with how the Christian tradition has understood the category of ‘mystery’ (i.e., not that which is unknown or unknowable per se, but that about which more can always be known). I think it might be very fruitful.

By: Dan

Dan — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 03:38:21 +0000

A well written article. I agree wholeheartedly.

By: Zach

Zach — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:48:26 +0000

Nah, logic is fundamental to everything we say. Without logic, nothing we say makes sense. Indeed, creation does not make sense without logic. Especially if logic is “a human construction”.

And of course God transcends the limits of human logic. This does not mean that God is unreasonable, but that the depth of His logic is not within our grasp. This does not mean our logic is negated or any less true, but that He sees infinitely more than we do. This is another way of saying we cannot see God’s reasons, but we know they are there. God is not anarchical because love is not anarchical. This also does not mean that Love is not passionate or fiery or unpredictable. It just means that love is reasonable and just and all of the aforementioned things too!

By: Paul DuBois

Paul DuBois — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:58:52 +0000

Logic is merely a method of getting from what we think we know to what we want to know. In the realm of things we know, there is no need for logic; I do not have to use logic to prove my shirt is blue. (I do have to make a nod to Descartes and admit that “knowing” my shirt is blue requires several assumptions, but that is a digression.) However, I have to use logic to show that healthcare reform will make our lives better, because I do not know that, but believe I can show it by using several forms of logic.

God, however, lives in the realm of “all knowing” and “all being.” We may try to use logic to prove he exists, but I find most of these attempts fail. What God reveals is what we would have concluded had we sufficient knowledge and perfect logic. Almost anyone who works in any field knows we never have sufficient knowledge and everyone else’s logic is a little flawed. I believe this is what the last to Popes have talked about when talking about the way science and religion can work together. The goal of science is to gain more complete knowledge from our limited knowledge through observation and logic. There is a point, however, where we cannot know enough to adequately come to the correct conclusion; this is where religion (or the revelation of God) comes in. Many scientist would deny this and say this is a “God of the gaps” filling in what we don’t understand or can’t observe yet. But I think the church is saying these things (the moment of creation, the reason for life etc.) are beyond observation and our ability to know or determine from logic.

By: Henry Karlson

Henry Karlson — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:03:17 +0000

While we certainly get the word logic from logos, that doesn’t mean logos is the same thing as our logic.

By: samrocha

samrocha — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:36:00 +0000

Ronald: I take you views of chaos and order to be meaningful and yet I think I may be using the term ‘order’ in a slightly different way—I do not mean to deny the chaos of the cosmos.

Sammons: Thank you for that wonderful and instructive account. It is much richer than what I could possibly offer here (or elsewhere), to be sure.

Bender: Yes, I am aware of that. In fact, the ‘logos’ of Christ is itself a reason that one might take my view here seriously. We cannot expect that the logic of God is our own (God’s ways are not our own), or, for that matter, that it would reveal itself within or according to the order of logic that we presume to follow. For this reason, the ‘logos’ is revealed in the love that John tells us is God—if we insist that God must be, as I mentioned.

By: Bender

Bender — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:30:15 +0000

You are aware of this FUNDAMENTAL bit of knowledge, are you not -- that Jesus is the Logos??? (logos, a Greek word meaning "reason" and from which we get the word "logic")

By: Brendan Sammon

Brendan Sammon — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:26:58 +0000

St.Bernard of Clariveaux vs. Peter Abailard (Abelard) was a matchup in this very same arena. Bernard saw the logic that Abelard trusted with such vigorous confidence (Abelard saw himself as the greatest master of logic since Aristotle) as little more than a ‘child’s toy’. He often referred to Abelard’s thought as stutilogia, or ‘stupid-ology’. Bernard believed that the lofty truths of the divine were so far above the order of logic that to elevate this human art (logic) to the highest mode of mediation was a dangerous and erroneous maneuver. Of course, what the premodern mind understood as ‘logic’ is far from our Modern fetish, which reduces it to ‘determinate intelligibility’. For the premodern mind, it was the ‘art of arts’, but always merely a tool to the noble truths of faith. Anyway, I merely offer the debates between Abelard and Bernard as an example to anyone who would want to see two erudite, refined minds discussing this same topic (not that Mr. Rocha’s piece is not also worthy of being read.)

By: Ronald King

Ronald King — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:04:34 +0000

Sam, I did not get past the statement “This is not to say that God is disordered.” Nothing exists in isolation as far as I know. It seems that everything that appears to be in chaos is actually creating order.
In order for us to exist, and I think you stated it above when I saw the word love, is that love creates an observable order out of what seems to be chaos and thus, life as we know it exists only due to love.
I will read what you wrote above now. It’s been a long day and my eyes want to close early tonight.
One of these universities should be hiring you.