Snow, Guns, and Hummers
As I sit and wait for Washington DC to be pounded by another show storm, I am reminded of an incident during the last major snow storm in December. A major snowball fight broke out at the popular intersection of 14th and U St. Obviously there was little traffic on the road. Then a big Hummer comes along, and – understandably – becomes a snowball target. What happened next was unbelievable. The driver was a DC detective who jumped out, pulled his gun on the kids, and started threatening and pushing people. I was gratified by the reaction of the crowd, who refused to put up with this aggression, and yet did not become violent either. The whole incident is caught on the video below. See it for yourself. To me, it is no coincidence that this aggressive man both drives a Hummer and is eager to wave a gun in peoples’ faces. The aggressive gun culture and the culture that spawns macho Hummer drivers spring from the same source, a sickness in society that sees violence as an acceptable way of dealing with problems, and with enforcing the Hobbesian “rights” of individuals to defend their own little patch of turf. Step back a bit and it appears so juvenile. Ironically, a bunch of snowballing-throwing kids showed more maturity here.
Oh, I forgot to mention – Fox News reported this event as a cop dealing with a group of out-of-control anti-war protestors. Is this a surprise?
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Fox News did not!!! I remember watching that clip on Fox News and anti-war protesting was never mentioned. Did you watch it?????
Pam
Just because the time you saw it on Fox News they did not say anything about protests does not mean they did not do so at other times– or are you claiming you saw every time they showed the clip?
Will the new macho mantra be “never bring a snowball to a gun fight”?
Did you really just post on a Catholic blog praising a bunch of people for yelling “F*** you, pig” and daring the guy to shoot? Man, you guys really know how to emphasize a consistent culture of life.
They had signs (look around at the 2:00) and were doing some sort of protest (hence the camera), so FoxNews at least told us that they were protestors (whereas you make it sound like these were random people having a whimsical snowball fight).
While the actions of the officer are clearly out of bounds, I think I’d like to know what exactly those kids did to make him so angry. I’m not buying the simple “we just threw snowballs at his Hummer” line yet.
I do see that in the write-ups of the story, the kids claimed not to be protesting (though apparently it’s common to bring political signs to a snowball fight in D.C.?)
Did you really just post on a Catholic blog praising a bunch of people for yelling “F*** you, pig” and daring the guy to shoot? Man, you guys really know how to emphasize a consistent culture of life.
Speaking for myself, and not Henry, I think saying “bad words” is a perfectly understandable response when someone is waving a gun at you. Only in america is Christianity and the “culture of life” equated with middle class respectability. And only in america is saying “f**k” considered a greater sin than waving a gun at innocent people.
Conservatives side with the cops.
Period.
Conservatives side with the cops. Period.
Ding ding!
“Only in america is Christianity and the “culture of life” equated with middle class respectability.”
Man, oh, man. I can’t emphasize enough how very important (and true) is that point. Who was it who said something like, “When fascism comes to America, it will be carrying a bible and wrapped in the Flag”??
Yes, the officer may have over reacted by instantly reaching for his gun, but in his defense, the sheer surprise of the continuous cannonade may have contributed to his emotional charge.
But I’m absolutely baffled by your defense of this rowdy, insolent and contemptuous cluster of imbeciles. Is this your idea of having a good time? Pitching snowballs (could be cotton balls for all I care) at vehicles driven by complete strangers? Not only is it – at bare minimum – uncalled for and uncivil and unprovoked harassment, but there is a safety component that must be considered but which you and the participants have incautiosly chosen to ignore.
And the to top it all off, you reveal the real thrust guiding your evaluation of this charade: you associate the cop with the gun with the Hummer and Fox News. Now the same right-wing device that involved this country in the confrontation with Iraq is responsible for cops pulling guns on a bunch of adolescents who just want to have fun. (Please spare me the obvious protestations of Fox News unless you are willing to trumpet forth the equally annoying modus operandi of its left-leaning, liberal counterpart networks.)
“Then a big Hummer comes along, and – understandably – becomes a snowball target.”
Understandably?? If the individuals involved had limited the snowball fight to themselves none of this would have happened. And, I might add, NOT all the individuals seen in the YouTube video qualify as “kids.” Many of the ones I saw were well into an age-group that knows better than to carry-on with this type of inexcusable conduct. GROW UP!
We might as well live in a militarized state. The officer of course will not be charged.
Didn’t a remarkably similar incident help spark the American Revolution?
I think saying “bad words” is a perfectly understandable response when someone is waving a gun at you.
The gun was down by that point, I think. I’d have to rewatch the video.
Only in america is Christianity and the “culture of life” equated with middle class respectability.
If not saying “f*** you, pig” and some of the other things they were chanting is merely the terrain of “middle class respectability” then something is seriously wrong with the other classes.
And only in america is saying “f**k” considered a greater sin than waving a gun at innocent people.
You’re right. I wish I hadn’t said that it was…oh wait. I didn’t say it was a greater sin. Obviously the cop (assuming the story is true) did the greater wrong.
The problem really is that this crowd reaction was posted as something to be praised: “I was gratified by the reaction of the crowd, who refused to put up with this aggression, and yet did not become violent either.” A claim that this crowd was an emblem of non-violence is absurd.
I’m sorry, but drawing your friggin’ gun because a bunch of people threw snowballs at your hummer is beyond asinine – not to mention grossly irresponsible.
He’s essentially threatening to shoot people for pelting his car with snowballs – and there are actually people on this thread defending him?
The right in this country is no longer “conservative” in any meaningful sense; they have become radical, extremist authoritarians.
Pam – the FoxNews clip is the second one in the group of ‘related’ videos which appear once you see the clip through to the end. They do mention anti-war protestors in this particular clip.
He’s essentially threatening to shoot people for pelting his car with snowballs – and there are actually people on this thread defending him?
Of course. This is a nation full of people who defend cops, SUVs and guns consistently and without apology.
Let’s back up a second. For a start, while using the world f**k might be incivil and intemperate, it is not part of the moral order. I find it highly ironic that many Americans obsess about “bad words” while turning a blind eye to the violence that pervades the culture. Case in point – do you think more people would be offended by children watching (i) a TV show with characters using the f-word; (ii) a TV show where one person shoots another with a gun? I think we all know the answer to that one.
Now, back to this “incident”. Listen, snowbal fights are not really my thing, but this impromptu activity in the midst of an urban area represented a kind of community bonding that used to be so culturally pervasive. Here’s how these things work (and there’s another at Dupont circle tomorrow) – a group of people who don’t know each other show up and have some fun in the snow. Afterwards, the go wind down at a local bar/ restaurant. That’s great.
There is nothing illegal about what these people were doing – the second cop advised them to just go back to their snowball fight. They were not targeting cars, because people tend not to (and should not) drive much during these storms.
I make no apology for defending the targeting of the Hummer. This was not vandalism or destruction of property – I do not believe a snowball could inflict such damage. But it was a statement opposed to the mentality of those who deem it their God-given right to drive these monstrous vehicles through city streets, destroying the environment; negating any sense of community; and putting pedestrians, cyclists, and fellow motorists at risk. It is the ultimate statement in me-first aggressive Hobbesianism. And the reaction of this armed driver perfectly displayed this attitude – he bacame enraged not because his safety or his vehicle was put at risk, but because these pedestrians had the gall to challenge his vehicular fortress as it plowed through the city streets. How dare they?
The gun was down by that point, I think.
Does that really make it better?
…but because these pedestrians had the gall to challenge his vehicular fortress as it plowed through the city streets.
You have a way with words, MM!
I think saying “bad words” is a perfectly understandable response when someone is waving a gun at you.
The gun was down by that point, I think.
Oh, you are right. Please let me rephrase:
I think saying “bad words” is a perfectly understandable response when someone has just waved his gun at you.
Great comedy — thanks!
perfectly understandable response when someone has just waved his gun at you.
It’s also perfectly stupid and beyond immature to do this to an agitated person with a gun. Why not behave like a Christian and be a peacemaker?
To S.B., the peacemaker, in response to your concern:
It seems clear that the people don’t really seem to feel threatened by the guy and are more interested in ridiculing him and drawing attention to the absurdity of “bring[ing] a gun to a snowball fight.” Ridicule and shame can actually be an effective tactic for deflating the erections of SUV-driving, gun-toting folks, so from one type of nonviolent perspective, the crowd actually IS engaging in peacemaking by making his gun flashing more public and embarrassing. If you were to read the Gospels, you would find that Jesus used the tactic of shame quite often.
Also, why assume that the people in the video are Christians?
It seems clear that the people don’t really seem to feel threatened by the guy and are more interested in ridiculing him and drawing attention to the absurdity of “bring[ing] a gun to a snowball fight.”
Then why the outrage? Such that MM saw fit to post it months later under the pretext that it’s snowing today, just like it was that day.
Either this was menacing or it wasn’t.
“It’s also perfectly stupid and beyond immature to do this to an agitated person with a gun. . .”
Or brave.
Sure this was innocent enough fun – but this was still not your run of the mill arbitrary gathering of high schoolers to have a little after school snowball fight – seems to me they gathered for some protest or the other – which is o.k. this is a free country after all.
If you were to read the Gospels, you would find that Jesus used the tactic of shame quite often.
If you read the Gospels, Jesus never said “f*** you pig” to the Roman authorities. His advice was that if a Roman centurion tried to make you walk one mile, walk two. Quite the opposite of what you’re trying to portray.
A less juvenile use of shame would have been saying, in a gentle and non-confrontational voice, “Sir, do you realize that you’re waving a gun at a snowball fight? Do you think that’s fair?” Etc.
Also, why assume that the people in the video are Christians?
Obviously they’re not. But they’re being lauded here by people who profess to be Christians, as if they had done something admirable.
MM,
I think you misunderstand the implication of the use of the f-bomb.
If a person comes up to me and says, “I think you’re in the wrong, and here’s why” I know I’m being argued against, but I don’t think my life is being threatened.
But if that same person comes up to me and says, “You’re totally f***ing wrong you motherf***ing a*****e, what the f*** is wrong with you?” my reaction is to note that:
(a.) This is a person who is acting aggressively and shows no compunction about escalating the situation;
(b.) This is a person who was probably raised very badly and hasn’t overcome his nasty upbringing;
(c.) This person doesn’t have control over his/her emotions and cannot be relied upon to act rationally;
(d.) This person may be impaired; i.e. drunk or on drugs;
(e.) The odds of this person having done prison time just went up, inasmuch as they’re illustrating their total disregard of social norms and unwillingness to show civility to someone they don’t know.
So whether it’s a cop with a gun saying all that stuff, or a crowd with…well, just numbers…saying all that stuff, either way, repeated use of the f-bomb escalates a situation towards violence by making it plausible that my “life and limb” might be threatened. I go to a heightened state of alert, when I’m being cursed at.
That, I think, is the significance of the swearing, not the question of whether using four-letter words is intrinsically sinful.
Seeing this heated debate, as always happens when someone mentions guns or Fox News, I do need to point out the most glaring problem with this post.
When you write that this is a case of a man believing in ‘the Hobbesian “rights” of individuals to defend their own little patch of turf’, you make a huge philosophical mistake. For Hobbes, there are no rights of the individual; there are no rights, period. Everyone is subject to the sovereign, who rules through fear. Now, in the state of nature, in which we no longer live according to Hobbes, life was “nasty, brutish, and short”, since people were in a constant “state of war”; so, if you were referring to this aspect of Hobbes, you were also mistaken, since in the Hobbesian state of nature there are no rights either.
I am not criticizing your main point about culture, which I believe has some justification, it is just that I wanted to make sure that no one was confused about what Thomas Hobbes actually wrote.
S.B., First of all, growth is not graceful and there is a rage within all of us that is transgenerational in its genetic expression. I AM SICK OF VIOLENCE AND THE SOCIOPATHIC MESOMORPH’S CONTROL THROUGH THREAT OF VIOLENCE!
F-fornication, U-under, C-the crown, K-of the King, is forbidden. Correct me if I am wrong. Didn’t that word originate from a law imposed on the poor during Henry VIII’s reign of love?
And just to be clear, the policeman didn’t do anything admirable or defensible either. Everyone in the video was acting out of immature emotion and rage against what they perceived as mistreatment. They are all acting in precisely the way that the Beatitudes says for us NOT to. (“Bless those who persecute you,” etc.)
Yes the officer appears to be a bit of an idiot here. However the “kids” (these people look like ADULTS to me)were being jerks as well. They remind me of the drunks from my college who used to make walking around campus a living hell. Believe it or not, it is not appropriate to have a snowball fight at a major intersection. These are the kind of brats who disrupt everyone else’s day because they lack a family to provide for. Over-grown five year olds.
The Hummer is “understandably” a target? Excuse me? Maybe for a bunch of 5th-graders? “Looook it’s a big car,let’s throw snow at it!! Snort snort!!!” I am guessing the officer wouldn’t have pulled his weapon on a bunch of 5th graders, either. Then again, who knows. He obviously doesn’t have it all together. Here in Cleveland we had a young lady die last year because some stoners decided to have some fun by throwing snowballs at cars driving down the road. One of them had a bit of ice in it, cracked her windshield and she drove off the road. Thus ended the life of a mother of two.
Even after Heller D.C. has one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. If you want to blame the “gun culture” for this incident, then you have to conclude gun control is powerless to stop the gun culture.
F-fornication, U-under, C-the crown, K-of the King, is forbidden. Correct me if I am wrong. Didn’t that word originate from a law imposed on the poor during Henry VIII’s reign of love?
You’re wrong.
If you want to blame the “gun culture” for this incident, then you have to conclude gun control is powerless to stop the gun culture.
That argument only works if there are rigid borders between states. Most guns in DC and New York come from Virginia, with the direct participation of the gun lobby. Nationwide gun control now.
That argument only works if there are rigid borders between states. Most guns in DC and New York come from Virginia, with the direct participation of the gun lobby. Nationwide gun control now.
I’ve addressed this point before. A nationwide gun bad was a nonstarter even before the Heller decision. I sometimes get the feeling that the anti-gun crowd is more interested in making a statement than in having an effect.
Blackadder, Thanks for the correction. F*kkit.
But they’re being lauded here by people who profess to be Christians, as if they had done something admirable.
I don’t think what they did was “admirable.” I think what they did was understandable. But I don’t think it’s wrong to call what they did “nonviolent.” In that sense, they are admirable in what they did not do.
Also, I don’t think “both sides were clearly behaving badly” is an an accurate description. One party had a gun pulled on them. Period.
Kind of amusing that a little use of the word “f**k” makes you all assume that these people are drunk or potentially violent.
The right in this country is no longer “conservative” in any meaningful sense; they have become radical, extremist authoritarians.
I believe that the lack of a truly “conservative” spirit (in the Burkean sense) in America’s current political culture is plunging the nation toward civic violence, and, eventually, toward further–and disastrous–foreign conflicts.
Obama is actually the least “radical” and the most temperamentally “conservative” President since John F. Kennedy. This is easily discernible by the fact that both the radical right and the radical left despise him.
MI I don’t think they’re drunks. I think they are jacka**es. The video shows a group of grown-ups who have somehow been raised to think it is normal and fun to throw snowballs at strangers who happen to pass by. They exactly resemble people from university (usually a frat)who believe the world is their personal playground.
Well, it’s not a playground. It’s full of actual grown-ups who actually do not care to have snow thrown at them! Shocker! The cop over-reacted but I’m sure the police would have been called eventually. Because that’s the only thing you can really do with people like this, since they’re too old to be spanked or given detention.
Magdalena – You’re certainly free to think that. It’s just quite telling that you would not call the cop a “jacka**” for pulling a gun on some people throwing snowballs, for thinking that that behavior is “normal,” for treating the world (and the streets) like it is his own “personal playground.” Check yer values. They out of whack: exactly backwards.
Well, they started it. Throwing snow at moving vehicles can be dangerous, as Magdalena pointed out (not that anyone seemed to care). So the cop did get out his gun, which certainly was an overreaction, but you do have to keep in mind that he didn’t know at the time whether or not he was dealing with a dangerous set of thugs one of whom was ready to pull out a gun himself. Police have to think about these things, you see.
So yes, it would have been better if the policeman hadn’t escalated the situation, but it also would have been better if the mob hadn’t started the situation first and if the more obnoxious among them hadn’t themselves escalated the situation as well.
Well, they started it.
Oh, do pardon me. I had no idea I was conversing with an 8 year old.
Magdalena, Why are you so hard? Pulling a gun in this situation is not an overreaction. It could be that he has witnessed a lot of violence that has left him with a serious case of PTSD, or, he was born a narcissistic sociopath or developed into one in which case he would have PTSD. Those who are throwing snowballs feel free to have fun when the snow comes because it slows down the frantic pace of life enough so we can have a release from pressure and let fly. We become kids again instead half dead humanbots programmed for every breath and movement that is demanded by the objectifying machine that we have constructed to give us direction and purpose in a world that is absent of love.
Again, why are you so hard?
RK, I’m sure there are limitless excuses that could be made for the cop and his crazy behavior. That doesn’t change the fact that his behavior is inappropriate to the situation.
The people throwing snowballs, well, I have no problem with snowball fights per se. But somewhere along the way in elementary school we are taught not to throw things at other people. Because that is assault. And it’s not being “hard” to say so.
If somebody wants to “be a kid again” they can go to a park or a backyard with a whole group of like-minded others and go to town for all I care. Not in the middle of the street, please, and 95 percent of humanity joins my plea. We should all find a way to obtain a “release from pressure” without endangering our fellow man and without disturbing the public peace. It’s not hard. It’s just not the strategy of choice for spoiled brats.
MI, I would not call the cop a jack*** for his behavior, simply because it seems less bratty and more… disturbing. This is a guy who probably has some serious issues that need to be worked on, and yet he somehow is allowed to be one of the few people in that city with a gun.
Magdalena, I meant to say that pulling a gun was more than an overreaction. It was insane. It is easy to label and much harder to understand compassionately.
It strikes me as interesting that a mostly white crowd stops a black policeman by throwing snowballs at his vehicle – the crowd them mocks him, calls him a “pig”, and pelts him with snowballs, and MM’s comment is, “it is no coincidence that this aggressive man both drives a hummer and is eager to wave a gun in peoples’ faces.”
Does MM see black men as being particularly aggresive? Does he, as the crowd apparently does, have a problem with a black man being in a position of authority in relation to a crowd which is amusing itself by pelting moving vehicles with snowballs?
And where exactly does the whole “this is the result of the gun culture” angle come from? The guy’s a cop. According to gun control advocates, he’s the only person who ought to have a gun.
And yes, since I’m sure it needs staying around here lest one be accused of thinking that drawing a gun is the correct response to being snowballed by an rude crowd, I do think the cop was wrong to pull his gun so quickly. Though clearly, it’s his job to clear a crowd that’s risking causing accidents by snowballing moving vehicles. In that regard, drawing his radio and calling for backup was the wiser course.
Yeah, Michael, when an unruly crowd of racist white people start the situation by assaulting a black police officer, it’s “understandable” that he might feel threatened and then overreact in response. There’s a long history of white mobs oppressing black people in this country, and that indelibly affects the way that black people perceive certain situations.
Should have said “potentially racist,” rather than “racist,” but then again, you usually claim racism over far less than yelling “f*** pig” in a black person’s face.
Oh, this is rich, and – I must admit – wholly unforeseen. Yes, when I wrote this post, it certainly never occurred to me to pay any attention to the race of the verious sides. Indeed, I find it laughable. To even hint that this aggressive man reacted the way he did because he thought a bunch of middle-class white kids were about to lynch him is offensive on so many levels.
And by the way, my ideal situation would be an unarmed police force, as works well in many countries. A pipe dream? Perhaps, but first we need to eradicate this evil gun culture, a culture that idolizes the big man with the gun.
I don’t think he thought the people pelting and insulting him were likely to lynch him — nor did I say that. I’m not really sure where you got that from. (Nor does it look like they were kids, they all look like they’re in their 20s to me. How you can tell they’re middle class, and what particular virtue there is to that, I’m not really sure.) But that doesn’t necessarily mean that racial issues didn’t play into what happened at all.
Far be it from me to criticize someone for being colorblind, but somehow it seems to me that folks here _would_ have noticed the races of people involved if a white police officer had drawn his gun in response to being pelted with snowballs and taunted by a crowd of black teenagers.
Look at it from the cop’s point of view. He’s diving along, minding his own business, under difficult weather conditions when a crowd starts pelting his vehicle with snowballs, forcing him to stop. When he gets out of his car, he is himself taunted and pelted with snowballs.
Now, maybe everyone here understands race relations in America much better than I do, but it seems to me that if a black police officer is trying to deal with people breaking the law (it is, after all, illegal to pelt moving cars with snowballs) and finds and entire crowd of white people mocking him and pelting him with snowballs, he may see them as rejecting his authority because of his race. And that may make him angry. Just sayin’…
I realize I am coming a little late in this post and most won’t see this, but I had to comment because I was involved in a similar incident in college. First let me say I do support our police, we ask them to do things for us few of us are willing to do. But because we give them great latitude, we do need to hold them to a pretty high standard.
30 years ago a large group of us were involved in a snowball fight at the University of Detroit after a party. Some of the people involved began throwing snowballs at the passing cars, even at the time I thought this a little irresponsible, but we were just kids. On of the passing cars came around a second time and the passenger in the car shot one of the students in the arm, inflicting a flesh wound, nothing serious. At the time we considered the shooter a criminal, when he was caught he was treated as one. The very fact of pointing a gun at someone in the same circumstance in my mind is not much less serious than actually shooting it since it could easily go off and policemen are taught to not point a gun unless you know you could be using it. The sad thing is that simply because he is a policeman he will not be treated like a criminal and that fails to hold him to a high standard.
Darwin, of course the “kids” (adults) in the video are middle class. Probably upper-middle class. Working class adults are too busy, you know, working, and don’t have parents who can subsidize lesiurely mid-afternoon snowball fights.
First off, Magdalena, this was a Saturday afternoon in the middle of a major snowfall. The city was practically shut down. The cop was not on official business, he was not on duty, he was not responding to an emergency situation. He was recklessly driving an obnoxious behemoth through the city streets in a snowstorm on personal business – because it’s his “right”, you see? What is more dangerous, more anti-social – having fun with snowballs or driving a Hummer in the snow with a gun in your pocket?
A final point- yes, we have a major problem with the working poor who are forced to work 2-3 jobs simply to keep up in this economy that does not place much weight on a living wage, affordable healthcare, job security, sufficient paid leave to spend time with family..if this is the debate you want, I’m ready.
MM – Oh, it was not unforeseen for me. I was just waiting for Darwin to turn it around this way, calling the crowd “racist,” and he did not disappoint. Nor did S.B. who quickly spoke up, following his leader, taking it to a new level of absurdity and, frankly, offensiveness.
Well, the fact is yes, in the United States one does have the right to own a Hummer, and one does have a right to drive it in the snow. You know, your pesonal taste is not a useful measure here. You think it’s an obnoxious behemouth and I agree, but other people think differently. I’m sure we could come up with a debate about how physically large a vehicle can be before Christian ethics are compromised, but that would be theologically constipated.
The gun I’m not sure about – are off-duty officers allowed to carry around their weapons? I would hope not but who knows. Definitely shouldn’t be waving it at people. What he should have done is stay in his car, call the police and have the brats either arrested or dispersed.
Ironically I read an article today about two college students who have been charged with felonies for throwing snowballs at a plow and an undercover police car. While I think that’s overkill, it really does qualify as an assault.
I fall into the category of working poor and you won’t get any argument from me about living wage, job security etc.