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	<title>Comments on: Pope Benedict on liberation theology&#8230; again.</title>
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	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Towards a proper appreciation of “liberation theology” – Some resources from Pope John Paul II &#171; the other side of silence</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-69039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Towards a proper appreciation of “liberation theology” – Some resources from Pope John Paul II &#171; the other side of silence]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-69039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] novak  In a recent post to Vox Nova, Michael Iafrate (aka. &#8220;The Catholic Anarchist&#8221;) offers a welcome reminder concerning Pope Benedict&#8217;s admonishment to the Brazilian bishops of &#8220;more or less [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] novak  In a recent post to Vox Nova, Michael Iafrate (aka. &#8220;The Catholic Anarchist&#8221;) offers a welcome reminder concerning Pope Benedict&#8217;s admonishment to the Brazilian bishops of &#8220;more or less [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68739</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re making me want some apple crisp, Brett!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re making me want some apple crisp, Brett!</p>
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		<title>By: brettsalkeld</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68737</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brettsalkeld]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael,
   Yes, each of the above things I mentioned should be subject to more careful analysis.  The basic point was to compare apples to apples.  It was an indirect response to your comment that it is odd to compare &#039;capitalism&#039; and &#039;liberation theology.&#039;  I have only named the apples.  I agree, in substance, with your points about the particular apples in question.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
   Yes, each of the above things I mentioned should be subject to more careful analysis.  The basic point was to compare apples to apples.  It was an indirect response to your comment that it is odd to compare &#8216;capitalism&#8217; and &#8216;liberation theology.&#8217;  I have only named the apples.  I agree, in substance, with your points about the particular apples in question.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68732</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68732</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;Who is that being directed towards? Leo Boff? He’s been out of the priesthood for almost 18 years. Which prominent liberation theologians (and/or members of Brazilian base communities) are still using Marxist dialectic today? Why bring it up now?&lt;/I&gt;

That&#039;s the real question, isn&#039;t it? That&#039;s kind of been the real question &lt;I&gt;every time&lt;/I&gt; Ratzinger has written about liberation theology. He never refers to any specific theologians or texts, but speaks only vaguely, which of course gives the impression that &quot;the church&quot; opposed liberation theology as a whole. 

In the case of Boff, if you read the statement on his book &lt;I&gt;Church: Charism and Power&lt;/I&gt; (which is the only text of his to be critiqued by the Vatican to my knowledge), the problem is his ecclesiological proposals, specifically his assertion that ecclesial structures were invented by human beings and are not &quot;divine&quot; in the sense of being unchangeable. On a related note, his use of Marxist language to challenge the use of the church&#039;s sacramental system was also critiqued. These are very specific concerns. Boff&#039;s attraction to Marxism as a way of critiquing the capitalist order was not criticized. Likewise, the criticism of Sobrino had nothing to do with Marxism but with his Christological proposals. Sobrino doesn&#039;t really use Marxist analysis at all.

Latin American theologians still for the most part assume the validity of the Marxist critique of capitalism (as does anyone in his or her right mind). Use of Marxism as a political strategy is far less common and indeed usually seen as passe, often because as was pointed out above, it is not radical enough. Indeed, few put much faith in &quot;Marxism&quot; as a strategy anyway. Looking more broadly, many other non-Latin American forms of liberation theology have had little use for Marxism. Black, feminist, and indigenous theologies for example hardly if ever refer(red) to Marxism. Liberationists still advocate radical social and political change, but less emphasis is placed on Marxism. Times have changed.

So why does he bring it up? Surely not because he has any idea what liberation theologians are saying today and is concerned about it. He does not seem up to speed on what is happening and is perhaps even more out of touch today than he was before. I think he&#039;s merely bringing it up as a vague ecclesiastical warning.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Who is that being directed towards? Leo Boff? He’s been out of the priesthood for almost 18 years. Which prominent liberation theologians (and/or members of Brazilian base communities) are still using Marxist dialectic today? Why bring it up now?</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s the real question, isn&#8217;t it? That&#8217;s kind of been the real question <i>every time</i> Ratzinger has written about liberation theology. He never refers to any specific theologians or texts, but speaks only vaguely, which of course gives the impression that &#8220;the church&#8221; opposed liberation theology as a whole. </p>
<p>In the case of Boff, if you read the statement on his book <i>Church: Charism and Power</i> (which is the only text of his to be critiqued by the Vatican to my knowledge), the problem is his ecclesiological proposals, specifically his assertion that ecclesial structures were invented by human beings and are not &#8220;divine&#8221; in the sense of being unchangeable. On a related note, his use of Marxist language to challenge the use of the church&#8217;s sacramental system was also critiqued. These are very specific concerns. Boff&#8217;s attraction to Marxism as a way of critiquing the capitalist order was not criticized. Likewise, the criticism of Sobrino had nothing to do with Marxism but with his Christological proposals. Sobrino doesn&#8217;t really use Marxist analysis at all.</p>
<p>Latin American theologians still for the most part assume the validity of the Marxist critique of capitalism (as does anyone in his or her right mind). Use of Marxism as a political strategy is far less common and indeed usually seen as passe, often because as was pointed out above, it is not radical enough. Indeed, few put much faith in &#8220;Marxism&#8221; as a strategy anyway. Looking more broadly, many other non-Latin American forms of liberation theology have had little use for Marxism. Black, feminist, and indigenous theologies for example hardly if ever refer(red) to Marxism. Liberationists still advocate radical social and political change, but less emphasis is placed on Marxism. Times have changed.</p>
<p>So why does he bring it up? Surely not because he has any idea what liberation theologians are saying today and is concerned about it. He does not seem up to speed on what is happening and is perhaps even more out of touch today than he was before. I think he&#8217;s merely bringing it up as a vague ecclesiastical warning.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68730</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68730</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brett - That is helpful but I think each of those things can and should be broken down so we can see the church&#039;s nuanced positions. &quot;Private property&quot; can mean different things, for example, and the church&#039;s defense of private property is, of course, not absolute. Just read a book that shows how Leo&#039;s defense of private property was in fact focused on the &lt;I&gt;worker&lt;/I&gt; and the right the worker has to the fruits of his/her labor, rather than a focus on the rights of the capitalist class. In other words, Leo is quite close to Marx and his entire purpose of &lt;I&gt;opposing&lt;/I&gt; private property!

And although I am a pacifist, it seems that &quot;armed revolution&quot; is not ruled out by the church but would be &quot;good&quot; or &quot;bad&quot; depending on a number of factors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett &#8211; That is helpful but I think each of those things can and should be broken down so we can see the church&#8217;s nuanced positions. &#8220;Private property&#8221; can mean different things, for example, and the church&#8217;s defense of private property is, of course, not absolute. Just read a book that shows how Leo&#8217;s defense of private property was in fact focused on the <i>worker</i> and the right the worker has to the fruits of his/her labor, rather than a focus on the rights of the capitalist class. In other words, Leo is quite close to Marx and his entire purpose of <i>opposing</i> private property!</p>
<p>And although I am a pacifist, it seems that &#8220;armed revolution&#8221; is not ruled out by the church but would be &#8220;good&#8221; or &#8220;bad&#8221; depending on a number of factors.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68676</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael,

Fair enough, and point well-taken, but when Benedict says:

&lt;i&gt;Its more or less visible consequences consisting of rebellion, division, dissent, offence, and anarchy make themselves felt, creating in your diocesan communities great suffering and a serious loss of vitality. I implore all those who in some way have felt attracted, involved and deeply touched by certain deceptive principles of Liberation Theology to consider once again the above-mentioned Instruction, perceiving the kind light with which it is proffered&lt;/i&gt;

Who is that being directed towards?  Leo Boff?  He&#039;s been out of the priesthood for almost 18 years.  Which prominent liberation theologians (and/or members of Brazilian base communities) are still using Marxist dialectic today?  Why bring it up now?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Fair enough, and point well-taken, but when Benedict says:</p>
<p><i>Its more or less visible consequences consisting of rebellion, division, dissent, offence, and anarchy make themselves felt, creating in your diocesan communities great suffering and a serious loss of vitality. I implore all those who in some way have felt attracted, involved and deeply touched by certain deceptive principles of Liberation Theology to consider once again the above-mentioned Instruction, perceiving the kind light with which it is proffered</i></p>
<p>Who is that being directed towards?  Leo Boff?  He&#8217;s been out of the priesthood for almost 18 years.  Which prominent liberation theologians (and/or members of Brazilian base communities) are still using Marxist dialectic today?  Why bring it up now?</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle R. Cupp</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68672</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kyle R. Cupp]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A good reminder, Michael.  Thank you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good reminder, Michael.  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: brettsalkeld</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68671</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brettsalkeld]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It may be best to take different aspects of the varying systems and note the Church&#039;s approval or disapproval of each.
Private property = good
A consumer culture = bad
Option for the poor = good
Armed revolution = bad
etc.

Liberation theology, like other theologies, can be good and/or bad.  One way to tell if a particular expression of liberation theology is good or bad is to see where it lines up with the Church on the above issues (and others like them).  When liberation theology condemns consumerism, good.  When it advocates armed revolution, bad.

Our need for labels and camps really hinders our ability to &#039;read the signs of the times.&#039;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be best to take different aspects of the varying systems and note the Church&#8217;s approval or disapproval of each.<br />
Private property = good<br />
A consumer culture = bad<br />
Option for the poor = good<br />
Armed revolution = bad<br />
etc.</p>
<p>Liberation theology, like other theologies, can be good and/or bad.  One way to tell if a particular expression of liberation theology is good or bad is to see where it lines up with the Church on the above issues (and others like them).  When liberation theology condemns consumerism, good.  When it advocates armed revolution, bad.</p>
<p>Our need for labels and camps really hinders our ability to &#8216;read the signs of the times.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Wj</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68664</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68664</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I though Novak proved that the theology of capitalism constitutes an advance over the prior tradition. :) 

In (serious) response to Excelsior: it is because of the dominance of capitalist ideology in the developed world that a disproportionate attention to liberation theology--and especially those elements in it that articulate and critique the unthought presuppositions of the West--is necessary and urgent.  Pretending as though there is any sort of parity between the existent powers of capitalism and those of Marxism, and that therefore one needs to split the middle between the two, is naive. The problem with Marxism is not that it is too radical but that, as liberation theologians as well as informed thomists have understood now for quite some time, it is not radical enough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I though Novak proved that the theology of capitalism constitutes an advance over the prior tradition. :) </p>
<p>In (serious) response to Excelsior: it is because of the dominance of capitalist ideology in the developed world that a disproportionate attention to liberation theology&#8211;and especially those elements in it that articulate and critique the unthought presuppositions of the West&#8211;is necessary and urgent.  Pretending as though there is any sort of parity between the existent powers of capitalism and those of Marxism, and that therefore one needs to split the middle between the two, is naive. The problem with Marxism is not that it is too radical but that, as liberation theologians as well as informed thomists have understood now for quite some time, it is not radical enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68663</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is strange to compare the Church&#039;s treatment of &quot;liberation theology&quot; and &quot;capitalism.&quot; One is a theological method and spirituality, and the other is an economic system.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is strange to compare the Church&#8217;s treatment of &#8220;liberation theology&#8221; and &#8220;capitalism.&#8221; One is a theological method and spirituality, and the other is an economic system.</p>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[digbydolben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 11:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem is that, with the possible exception of John Paul II (and, then, only in his less paranoid period as pope), the Vatican does not know how to talk to the modern world. It does not understand modern journalism and does not appreciate the extent to which it could actually &lt;i&gt;use&lt;/i&gt; these journalistic tactics to maximize the effect of its moral authority upon both the faithful and the secularist worlds. How about a week-long stay, by a reigning pope, in a South American base-camp, in order to learn &lt;i&gt;from the affected people themselves&lt;/i&gt; the necessity of adapting the social justice teachings of the Church to 3rd World living conditions? Then, even if the pope came back with the same conclusions about the dire influence of Marxism, the anti-Catholic press would have no opportunity to accuse the pope of &quot;indifference.&quot; This is something, though, that only a John XXIII would be capable of; even Wojtlywa was too much of a &quot;prince of this world&quot; to think of it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that, with the possible exception of John Paul II (and, then, only in his less paranoid period as pope), the Vatican does not know how to talk to the modern world. It does not understand modern journalism and does not appreciate the extent to which it could actually <i>use</i> these journalistic tactics to maximize the effect of its moral authority upon both the faithful and the secularist worlds. How about a week-long stay, by a reigning pope, in a South American base-camp, in order to learn <i>from the affected people themselves</i> the necessity of adapting the social justice teachings of the Church to 3rd World living conditions? Then, even if the pope came back with the same conclusions about the dire influence of Marxism, the anti-Catholic press would have no opportunity to accuse the pope of &#8220;indifference.&#8221; This is something, though, that only a John XXIII would be capable of; even Wojtlywa was too much of a &#8220;prince of this world&#8221; to think of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/12/21/pope-benedict-on-liberation-theology-again/#comment-68659</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Karlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=11354#comment-68659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I always like bringing up the example of scholasticism. Anyone who knows its history knows all kinds of questions and condemnations which were given to its adherents in its history. Scholasticism was seen as &quot;liberal&quot; in its day, and even great saints like St Thomas Aquinas were questioned and considered heterodox, not only in their lifetime, but also long after their death. If we had the internet in their day, it is clear the kinds of posts people would have written against scholasticism -- rejecting the whole because of troubling parts within it, just like we see in Liberation Theology today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always like bringing up the example of scholasticism. Anyone who knows its history knows all kinds of questions and condemnations which were given to its adherents in its history. Scholasticism was seen as &#8220;liberal&#8221; in its day, and even great saints like St Thomas Aquinas were questioned and considered heterodox, not only in their lifetime, but also long after their death. If we had the internet in their day, it is clear the kinds of posts people would have written against scholasticism &#8212; rejecting the whole because of troubling parts within it, just like we see in Liberation Theology today.</p>
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