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	<title>Comments on: Joseph Cao, Ignatian Spirituality, and Health Care</title>
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	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: brettsalkeld</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brettsalkeld]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the last three words of St. Thomas More quoted above would be a great name for a blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the last three words of St. Thomas More quoted above would be a great name for a blog.</p>
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		<title>By: David Raber</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67418</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Raber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since Thomas More is no longer around, I nominate the Minion as the first presidential candidate of the United States Christian Democratic Party.  For the Vice Presidential candidate, Sancho Panza would be about right.

At any rate, I don&#039;t know if the Minion is holy or not, but I haven&#039;t read anything he has written yet that is particularly unholy, or even wrong-headed--although he does give Sarah Palin holy hell, which she richly deserves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since Thomas More is no longer around, I nominate the Minion as the first presidential candidate of the United States Christian Democratic Party.  For the Vice Presidential candidate, Sancho Panza would be about right.</p>
<p>At any rate, I don&#8217;t know if the Minion is holy or not, but I haven&#8217;t read anything he has written yet that is particularly unholy, or even wrong-headed&#8211;although he does give Sarah Palin holy hell, which she richly deserves.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Enright</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67368</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Enright]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MM--

What is your point? Just because a saint once said harsher things about Martin Luther doesn&#039;t mean that your rant was actually charitable. Just because someone is a saint doesn&#039;t mean they always did the right thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM&#8211;</p>
<p>What is your point? Just because a saint once said harsher things about Martin Luther doesn&#8217;t mean that your rant was actually charitable. Just because someone is a saint doesn&#8217;t mean they always did the right thing.</p>
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		<title>By: ragekj</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67362</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ragekj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MM,
You have no idea how happy your reference to that rant made me. My friends and I at college love St. Thomas More and his epic tongue lashing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM,<br />
You have no idea how happy your reference to that rant made me. My friends and I at college love St. Thomas More and his epic tongue lashing.</p>
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		<title>By: Morning's Minion</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morning's Minion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And a very enjoyable rant it was too! Then again, it&#039;s nothing on St. Thomas More, who had this to say about Martin Luther:

&quot;But meanwhile, for as long as your reverend paternity will be determined to tell these shameless lies, others will be permitted, on behalf of his English majesty, to throw back into your paternity&#039;s shitty mouth, truly the shit-pool of all shit, all the muck and shit which your damnable rottenness has vomited up, and to empty out all the sewers and privies onto your crown divested of the dignity of the priestly crown, against which no less than against the kingly crown you have determined to play the buffoon.&quot;

Or this:

&quot;Luther is a] person in whose pen there is nothing but calumnies, lies and deceptions; in whose spirit there is nothing but venom, bombast and ill will; who conceives nothing in his mind but folly, madness, and insanity; who has nothing in his mouth but privies, filth and dung .... But if he proceeds to play the buffoon in the manner in which he has begun, and to rave madly, if he proceeds to rage with calumny, to mouth trifling nonsense, to act like a raging madman, to make sport with buffoonery, and to carry nothing in his mouth but bilge-water, sewers, privies, filth and dung, then let others do what they will; we will take timely counsel, whether we wish to deal with the fellow thus ranting according to his virtue and to paint with his colors, or to leave this mad friarlet and privy-minded rascal with his ragings and ravings, with his filth and dung, shitting and beshitted..&quot;

Now that&#039;s a real rant!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And a very enjoyable rant it was too! Then again, it&#8217;s nothing on St. Thomas More, who had this to say about Martin Luther:</p>
<p>&#8220;But meanwhile, for as long as your reverend paternity will be determined to tell these shameless lies, others will be permitted, on behalf of his English majesty, to throw back into your paternity&#8217;s shitty mouth, truly the shit-pool of all shit, all the muck and shit which your damnable rottenness has vomited up, and to empty out all the sewers and privies onto your crown divested of the dignity of the priestly crown, against which no less than against the kingly crown you have determined to play the buffoon.&#8221;</p>
<p>Or this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Luther is a] person in whose pen there is nothing but calumnies, lies and deceptions; in whose spirit there is nothing but venom, bombast and ill will; who conceives nothing in his mind but folly, madness, and insanity; who has nothing in his mouth but privies, filth and dung &#8230;. But if he proceeds to play the buffoon in the manner in which he has begun, and to rave madly, if he proceeds to rage with calumny, to mouth trifling nonsense, to act like a raging madman, to make sport with buffoonery, and to carry nothing in his mouth but bilge-water, sewers, privies, filth and dung, then let others do what they will; we will take timely counsel, whether we wish to deal with the fellow thus ranting according to his virtue and to paint with his colors, or to leave this mad friarlet and privy-minded rascal with his ragings and ravings, with his filth and dung, shitting and beshitted..&#8221;</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s a real rant!</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Gormley</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67358</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Colin Gormley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MM showing that whole Christian charity thing to Palin.  What a rant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM showing that whole Christian charity thing to Palin.  What a rant.</p>
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		<title>By: standmickey</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[standmickey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jeff: for example, to use an analogy that you might appreciate more, my sense is that Barack Obama is a very good man. His actions at Arlington and Dover last week confirmed that sense for me. But that doesn&#039;t mean I won&#039;t vociferously oppose him when he does things on a political level that I find abhorrent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jeff: for example, to use an analogy that you might appreciate more, my sense is that Barack Obama is a very good man. His actions at Arlington and Dover last week confirmed that sense for me. But that doesn&#8217;t mean I won&#8217;t vociferously oppose him when he does things on a political level that I find abhorrent.</p>
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		<title>By: jh</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67353</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff

First let me say I am not going to get into the absurd debate of  if Cao is the Saint and Palin the female version of the anti Christ.

Needless to say I think on the whole  Cao is  a man very much of conviction. He has used his Law degree to help people in the area and I have to say his efforts with the Vietnamese communty was one of the success stories down here. He also has served the United States Bishops.

Cao to say the least is in a difficult position in that district. The GOP in New Orleans for once did not go on some bizaree three ball triple bankshot mindfreak  and support the worse democrat possible for some  unlikely future scenario and  advantage. 

Which has been their MO for years in that web of New Orleans politics

Still if a good percentage of African Americans had not forgotten it was election day it appears we would have had Jefferson again.

CAO is basically a Lindy Boggs with a (R) by his name and trust me that is a 1000 percent improvement over what we had and what we might get again. If we can keep Cao I don&#039;t care if he gets Bourbon Street renamed Nancy Pelosi BLVD.

I say this because I know for a fact that besides the Pro-life matter he had problems with  soem aspects of the the bill. Several things get missed. First there was an interesting interplay between Obama and one of the &quot;questions&quot; from the audience in New Orleans  dealing with the LSU Charity hospital being rebuilt. Obama got real vague and it was apparent he was sending a message to Cao that it was being held hostage. CAO getting the funds for that is crucial! So we have added hardball from the White House

Plus while I don&#039;t think Cao is being dishonest I think that praying and discernment must have occured a while longer because he voted at the last possible minute(after seeing the Dems had the votes to pass it) YES. A smart move. 

It is always a difficult balance on when to vote your convictions over the wishes of your district. One cannot do that all the time.

 I think Cao on the whole did that here. Heck even Palin had to do that because I highly suspect her social views were not the exactly the views of a much more Libertarian leaning state like Alaska.

So while I disagreed with his vote I respected it. He is needless to say and never has been someone to observe something from a perch.

That being said there will be votes he will have votes that people praising CAO today will curse him tommorrow and people cursing him today will be praising him tomorrow when he votes some way.

He sees everything through a lens of Catholic Social Justice much like Lindy Boggs did. His thinking will not be rigid and at least he can be engaged. A amrked improvement because the main thing we could deal with Jefferson on was trade.

Again it is a difficult balance in that district. In the next race he has got to keep his GOP votes, convince a very liberal White Uptown district that they can live with him over the other choice and somehow through some miracle capture I estimate 20 to 23 percent of the black vote while we all pray another goofy far left African American enters the race as a independent like last time.

Planned Parenthood went berserk over his vote down here and THIS  RACE IS HIGH PRIORITY for them. All this could occur right after a immigration reform vote, (very unlikely the White House will push in my view but possible) that will be another CAO conviction vote and which will make both his conservative supporters and the black community mad. 

To say the least the minefield he has to navigate down there while being true to his Catholic Convictions is extreme

So for a good Catholic politcian that is not an scandal and is a very decent Catholic  man I am willing to give considerable leeway.

ANd who knows if African Americans can get used to voting for a Republican down here  then maybe they will in the future and the city will not be run  by a ever long list of depressing machines and organziations that are a huge part of the problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff</p>
<p>First let me say I am not going to get into the absurd debate of  if Cao is the Saint and Palin the female version of the anti Christ.</p>
<p>Needless to say I think on the whole  Cao is  a man very much of conviction. He has used his Law degree to help people in the area and I have to say his efforts with the Vietnamese communty was one of the success stories down here. He also has served the United States Bishops.</p>
<p>Cao to say the least is in a difficult position in that district. The GOP in New Orleans for once did not go on some bizaree three ball triple bankshot mindfreak  and support the worse democrat possible for some  unlikely future scenario and  advantage. </p>
<p>Which has been their MO for years in that web of New Orleans politics</p>
<p>Still if a good percentage of African Americans had not forgotten it was election day it appears we would have had Jefferson again.</p>
<p>CAO is basically a Lindy Boggs with a (R) by his name and trust me that is a 1000 percent improvement over what we had and what we might get again. If we can keep Cao I don&#8217;t care if he gets Bourbon Street renamed Nancy Pelosi BLVD.</p>
<p>I say this because I know for a fact that besides the Pro-life matter he had problems with  soem aspects of the the bill. Several things get missed. First there was an interesting interplay between Obama and one of the &#8220;questions&#8221; from the audience in New Orleans  dealing with the LSU Charity hospital being rebuilt. Obama got real vague and it was apparent he was sending a message to Cao that it was being held hostage. CAO getting the funds for that is crucial! So we have added hardball from the White House</p>
<p>Plus while I don&#8217;t think Cao is being dishonest I think that praying and discernment must have occured a while longer because he voted at the last possible minute(after seeing the Dems had the votes to pass it) YES. A smart move. </p>
<p>It is always a difficult balance on when to vote your convictions over the wishes of your district. One cannot do that all the time.</p>
<p> I think Cao on the whole did that here. Heck even Palin had to do that because I highly suspect her social views were not the exactly the views of a much more Libertarian leaning state like Alaska.</p>
<p>So while I disagreed with his vote I respected it. He is needless to say and never has been someone to observe something from a perch.</p>
<p>That being said there will be votes he will have votes that people praising CAO today will curse him tommorrow and people cursing him today will be praising him tomorrow when he votes some way.</p>
<p>He sees everything through a lens of Catholic Social Justice much like Lindy Boggs did. His thinking will not be rigid and at least he can be engaged. A amrked improvement because the main thing we could deal with Jefferson on was trade.</p>
<p>Again it is a difficult balance in that district. In the next race he has got to keep his GOP votes, convince a very liberal White Uptown district that they can live with him over the other choice and somehow through some miracle capture I estimate 20 to 23 percent of the black vote while we all pray another goofy far left African American enters the race as a independent like last time.</p>
<p>Planned Parenthood went berserk over his vote down here and THIS  RACE IS HIGH PRIORITY for them. All this could occur right after a immigration reform vote, (very unlikely the White House will push in my view but possible) that will be another CAO conviction vote and which will make both his conservative supporters and the black community mad. </p>
<p>To say the least the minefield he has to navigate down there while being true to his Catholic Convictions is extreme</p>
<p>So for a good Catholic politcian that is not an scandal and is a very decent Catholic  man I am willing to give considerable leeway.</p>
<p>ANd who knows if African Americans can get used to voting for a Republican down here  then maybe they will in the future and the city will not be run  by a ever long list of depressing machines and organziations that are a huge part of the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: ragekj</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67352</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ragekj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:19:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, I meant MM&#039;s comment when I said &quot;the post above mine&quot;, not standmickey&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I meant MM&#8217;s comment when I said &#8220;the post above mine&#8221;, not standmickey&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: ragekj</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67351</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ragekj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[About the Palin comparison: For what it&#039;s worth (about 2 cents) I think many of ya&#039;ll are off on this one.

While I don&#039;t think Palin would be a good president it is clear that she is truly concerned for the unborn. Her decision to bear a child with Down&#039;s Syndrome has to speak to that truth. I agree that many of her stances are cause for concern; I too am sick of the neoconservative trend in favor of unnecessary (and therefore unjust) war and torture, and those issues would likely prevent me from voting for her. However, I think that the post above mine seems to go a little over the top in that it appears to rule out the possibility that Palin has any good intentions or objectives. 

Rep. Cao decided to vote to attempt to promote healthcare for the poor and impoverished. He did so bucking his party&#039;s leadership, and he did so after saying that he would oppose the bill if it provided abortion coverage even if it would &quot;probably be the death of my career.&quot; He has managed to anger both political parties, and for that I would like to second standmickey&#039;s nomination. Whether one agrees with the health care bill or not, I hope that we can see that he is acting according to his best lights.

Thanks for posting this article-I would have missed it otherwise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the Palin comparison: For what it&#8217;s worth (about 2 cents) I think many of ya&#8217;ll are off on this one.</p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t think Palin would be a good president it is clear that she is truly concerned for the unborn. Her decision to bear a child with Down&#8217;s Syndrome has to speak to that truth. I agree that many of her stances are cause for concern; I too am sick of the neoconservative trend in favor of unnecessary (and therefore unjust) war and torture, and those issues would likely prevent me from voting for her. However, I think that the post above mine seems to go a little over the top in that it appears to rule out the possibility that Palin has any good intentions or objectives. </p>
<p>Rep. Cao decided to vote to attempt to promote healthcare for the poor and impoverished. He did so bucking his party&#8217;s leadership, and he did so after saying that he would oppose the bill if it provided abortion coverage even if it would &#8220;probably be the death of my career.&#8221; He has managed to anger both political parties, and for that I would like to second standmickey&#8217;s nomination. Whether one agrees with the health care bill or not, I hope that we can see that he is acting according to his best lights.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting this article-I would have missed it otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: standmickey</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67350</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[standmickey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff: none of us would disagree that Gov. Palin did the right thing in bringing Trig into the world. But as the Larry Craigs and David Vitters of the world desperately seek to remind us, there is a difference between doing right as a person and doing right as a leader. Palin did right in her personal life. Hell, she didn&#039;t just &quot;do right&quot;; she made a courageous and self-sacrificial decision when she could have easily have dealt with the problem quietly and conveniently. However, that doesn&#039;t give her a free pass when it comes to her politics. The bottom line is that the only &quot;solutions&quot; she can come up with are the same tax-cutting, deregulating voodoo economics that got us into this mess (and that&#039;s before we even get into her exceedingly dangerous views on foreign policy). 

When I say that Joseph Cao is the anti-Palin, I mean it in the sense that he had the courage to buck his party to reject the utter mindlessness that has characterized the Republican Party&#039;s engagement on the health care issue (and for which Palin is largely responsible). In that sense, he is a true &quot;maverick.&quot; The fact that his personal life seems pretty much unimpeachable is icing on the cake.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: none of us would disagree that Gov. Palin did the right thing in bringing Trig into the world. But as the Larry Craigs and David Vitters of the world desperately seek to remind us, there is a difference between doing right as a person and doing right as a leader. Palin did right in her personal life. Hell, she didn&#8217;t just &#8220;do right&#8221;; she made a courageous and self-sacrificial decision when she could have easily have dealt with the problem quietly and conveniently. However, that doesn&#8217;t give her a free pass when it comes to her politics. The bottom line is that the only &#8220;solutions&#8221; she can come up with are the same tax-cutting, deregulating voodoo economics that got us into this mess (and that&#8217;s before we even get into her exceedingly dangerous views on foreign policy). </p>
<p>When I say that Joseph Cao is the anti-Palin, I mean it in the sense that he had the courage to buck his party to reject the utter mindlessness that has characterized the Republican Party&#8217;s engagement on the health care issue (and for which Palin is largely responsible). In that sense, he is a true &#8220;maverick.&#8221; The fact that his personal life seems pretty much unimpeachable is icing on the cake.</p>
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		<title>By: Morning's Minion</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/11/18/joseph-cao-ignatian-spirituality-and-health-care/#comment-67348</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morning's Minion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=10993#comment-67348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Unconditional love? Please tell me you are joking. Palin is a petty vindictive narcissist who uses anybody she can (including her own children) to further her political gains. She is nihilistic anti-intellectual moral relativist who takes liberties with the truth in order to appeal to the worst in people. She is the self-centered materialist who resigned public office to profit from her fame. She is an empty shell who has never thought seriously about a single issue in her life, and it proud of it. She quotes racists who talk about murdering their political opponents, she supports the most thuggish neocon views on foreign policy and islam, she adheres to a dangerous and dubious fundamentalist theology, she tells the most vicious lies about health care reform, she exploits core life issues (abortion, euthanasia) solely for political gain. Her whole political philosophy centers around a ruinous slash and burn tactic, pandering to the worst elements in society, playing up and creating divisions between people. In short, she is quite possibly the worst major public figure to ever appear on the American political stage. Let me tell you how I really feel!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unconditional love? Please tell me you are joking. Palin is a petty vindictive narcissist who uses anybody she can (including her own children) to further her political gains. She is nihilistic anti-intellectual moral relativist who takes liberties with the truth in order to appeal to the worst in people. She is the self-centered materialist who resigned public office to profit from her fame. She is an empty shell who has never thought seriously about a single issue in her life, and it proud of it. She quotes racists who talk about murdering their political opponents, she supports the most thuggish neocon views on foreign policy and islam, she adheres to a dangerous and dubious fundamentalist theology, she tells the most vicious lies about health care reform, she exploits core life issues (abortion, euthanasia) solely for political gain. Her whole political philosophy centers around a ruinous slash and burn tactic, pandering to the worst elements in society, playing up and creating divisions between people. In short, she is quite possibly the worst major public figure to ever appear on the American political stage. Let me tell you how I really feel!</p>
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