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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;We Will Never Forget&#8221;: Metz, Memory, and the Dangerous Spirituality of Post-9/11 America (Part I)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: John Sobert Sylvest</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/#comment-64472</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Sobert Sylvest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=9821#comment-64472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The notion of an &#039;American spirituality&#039; may still strike some as a strange concept, especially in light of the pride many Americans take in the separation of Church and state.&quot;

We certainly needn&#039;t [bracket] either our metaphysics or our religions for discourse in the public square. We do, however, have a responsibility to TRANSLATE them such that they can be understood by other people of both large intelligence and profound goodwill, who needn&#039;t have the benefit of special revelation in order to discern right from wrong, good from evil. Clearly, though, our deontologies should be considered at least as tentative as our ontologies (root metaphors) are speculative, which is to invite a little more humility and a lot less hubris into our discourse.

We especially should resist falling prey to the temptation of thinking that most of our political differences, including war strategies, are moral rather than practical in essence. Such a mis-framing is a cynical ploy to demagogically engage the masses in a polarizing and energizing over-against view of other approaches and dialogue partners, who are earnestly and sincerely involved in the deliberative processes that will devise prescriptions for our ills.

Please consider my case for deescalation in Afghanistan – just war criteria require redefinition of success http://bit.ly/21ITlm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The notion of an &#8216;American spirituality&#8217; may still strike some as a strange concept, especially in light of the pride many Americans take in the separation of Church and state.&#8221;</p>
<p>We certainly needn&#8217;t [bracket] either our metaphysics or our religions for discourse in the public square. We do, however, have a responsibility to TRANSLATE them such that they can be understood by other people of both large intelligence and profound goodwill, who needn&#8217;t have the benefit of special revelation in order to discern right from wrong, good from evil. Clearly, though, our deontologies should be considered at least as tentative as our ontologies (root metaphors) are speculative, which is to invite a little more humility and a lot less hubris into our discourse.</p>
<p>We especially should resist falling prey to the temptation of thinking that most of our political differences, including war strategies, are moral rather than practical in essence. Such a mis-framing is a cynical ploy to demagogically engage the masses in a polarizing and energizing over-against view of other approaches and dialogue partners, who are earnestly and sincerely involved in the deliberative processes that will devise prescriptions for our ills.</p>
<p>Please consider my case for deescalation in Afghanistan – just war criteria require redefinition of success <a href="http://bit.ly/21ITlm" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/21ITlm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Remembrance, 9/11&#8217;s Theology, and Metz &#171; flying.farther</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/#comment-63621</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Remembrance, 9/11&#8217;s Theology, and Metz &#171; flying.farther]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 04:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=9821#comment-63621</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Mike posts if you want to find combative (and often purposely misreading) comments. Find parts 1, 2, and 3. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)The Dangerous Jesus in the Martyrdom of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mike posts if you want to find combative (and often purposely misreading) comments. Find parts 1, 2, and 3. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)The Dangerous Jesus in the Martyrdom of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel Austin</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/#comment-63504</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gabriel Austin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=9821#comment-63504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate writes September 12, 2009 at 12:18 am
&quot;Part three will explain in more detail my claim that 9/11 was both an interruption and a non-interruption&quot;.

Ah yes, the Hegelian negation of a negative. Mr. Iafrate, you&#039;ve been reading too much Teutonic verbiage.

But we can be grateful that you&#039;ve at last explained whose classes you&#039;re coming from.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael J. Iafrate writes September 12, 2009 at 12:18 am<br />
&#8220;Part three will explain in more detail my claim that 9/11 was both an interruption and a non-interruption&#8221;.</p>
<p>Ah yes, the Hegelian negation of a negative. Mr. Iafrate, you&#8217;ve been reading too much Teutonic verbiage.</p>
<p>But we can be grateful that you&#8217;ve at last explained whose classes you&#8217;re coming from.</p>
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		<title>By: Pinky</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/#comment-63494</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pinky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=9821#comment-63494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gerald, I assume that Michael&#039;s analysis will deal with the American psyche.  In such an analysis, the amount of damage caused by American foreign policy probably won&#039;t affect the American state of mind.

David, not only has the South experienced intense war, it&#039;s the most pro-military part of the country.  Up-close military loss can make you a lot more peaceful or a lot more aggressive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerald, I assume that Michael&#8217;s analysis will deal with the American psyche.  In such an analysis, the amount of damage caused by American foreign policy probably won&#8217;t affect the American state of mind.</p>
<p>David, not only has the South experienced intense war, it&#8217;s the most pro-military part of the country.  Up-close military loss can make you a lot more peaceful or a lot more aggressive.</p>
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		<title>By: David Raber</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/#comment-63471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Raber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=9821#comment-63471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gerald, you say:

&quot;I think a main reason for America’s unceasing warmongering is that it was never bombed to hell.&quot;

Atlanta and other American places were bombed to hell and millions of Americans died in the extreme carnage that was our civil war--so maybe you need to look for your reason elsewhere, perhaps in the forgetting of the grim reality of that particular war and others too.

Europe, I suppose, has been beat over the head with history to the point where history cannot be ignored, and its lessons ignored--two massive wars in one century--with the rest of the world invited--being the great loads of straw that smothered the camel.  But even these things can be forgotten if the effort is not made to remember.
 
Pope John XXIII said that history is the great teacher of life.  He learned many of history&#039;s lessons, and our Church benefited from his learning immeasurably, proving that it can be done: Leaders can lead us wisely based in large part upon a grasp of history.

Michael, I will look for your follow-ups as time allows.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerald, you say:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think a main reason for America’s unceasing warmongering is that it was never bombed to hell.&#8221;</p>
<p>Atlanta and other American places were bombed to hell and millions of Americans died in the extreme carnage that was our civil war&#8211;so maybe you need to look for your reason elsewhere, perhaps in the forgetting of the grim reality of that particular war and others too.</p>
<p>Europe, I suppose, has been beat over the head with history to the point where history cannot be ignored, and its lessons ignored&#8211;two massive wars in one century&#8211;with the rest of the world invited&#8211;being the great loads of straw that smothered the camel.  But even these things can be forgotten if the effort is not made to remember.</p>
<p>Pope John XXIII said that history is the great teacher of life.  He learned many of history&#8217;s lessons, and our Church benefited from his learning immeasurably, proving that it can be done: Leaders can lead us wisely based in large part upon a grasp of history.</p>
<p>Michael, I will look for your follow-ups as time allows.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald A. Naus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/#comment-63468</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald A. Naus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=9821#comment-63468</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I think that, for most Americans, 9/11 did constitute a violent interruption of a peaceful life.&quot;
Those at the receiving end of American weapons didn&#039;t consider it a peaceful life. Sure, the terrorists are murderous lunatics, but it takes special talent to draw their undivided attention. There&#039;s a reason why Toronto wasn&#039;t attacked. If you screw with countless countries around the world, 9/11 and other things are bound to happen. To force happiness on people at gunpoint is something so dumb only a war-like people could believe.

I think a main reason for America&#039;s unceasing warmongering is that it was never bombed to hell. In Europe, someone volunteering for the military is viewed, at best, as a weirdo. To kill for a living is no life.

The scary thing about the Bush regime&#039;s exploitation of 9/11 is that I fell for it for some time in my pathetic effort to fit in, the idiotic over-compensating immigrant. Well, I&#039;m done with this country&#039;s system, military, financial, political. **** it. I&#039;m European. A Europe of regions. At home in the Champagne, Umbria, Toscana, Catalunya etc. I had to go away to find my way home. Forgive me for this being not exactly a response to your post, Michael, but I just listened to this German song by Reinhard Mey and wanted to translate it for you guys and gals. It was written in response to the Iraq War. Lastly, thank you guys - Mark, Katherine, Michael and others - for helping me along.
-----
Born in a city destroyed by war I have heard, for as long as I can remember, &quot;Never again war!&quot;

I learned my lesson so well, saw the war up close, that even as a child I understood what happened.
Some fears, I know, will never let go of me
And images will not be erased from my mind.
War is a crime, no war is ever just.

And you, who want to sell us on it and break that oath, you pious praying folk, are now banging the war drums to lead other people&#039;s children into your battles.
Remember, you never, ever again wanted war.

Down with your weapons!

They say, they&#039;re just doing their job, just doing their duty.
However harmless you want to make it sound, you&#039;re not fooling us.

The job means to place mines, the duty to bomb
Destroy, maim, eradicate and liquidate,
means scorched earth, hunting people down
and wounding your soul forever.

Sometimes I see a child&#039;s face under that helmet, on it sheer terror when it realizes for what shameful deeds, for what filthy crimes it had signed up.
You will never rid yourself of that guilt, never.

Never again war, down with the weapons.

Do you believe that, in your godforsaken hole in the desert sand, you&#039;re defending your children, your village or your country ? Do you think that if you come stomping in your big high tech boots, bombing the country back to the stone age, you could liberate it through bloodshed ? Shoot peace into the heart of men ?

No, you are being abused for an evil cause - for power, for oil, for steel so that the military engine can keep humming.
This pack that, as they please, puts a target on your back at the end of the world.

Refuse to obey, say Never again. Never again war.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think that, for most Americans, 9/11 did constitute a violent interruption of a peaceful life.&#8221;<br />
Those at the receiving end of American weapons didn&#8217;t consider it a peaceful life. Sure, the terrorists are murderous lunatics, but it takes special talent to draw their undivided attention. There&#8217;s a reason why Toronto wasn&#8217;t attacked. If you screw with countless countries around the world, 9/11 and other things are bound to happen. To force happiness on people at gunpoint is something so dumb only a war-like people could believe.</p>
<p>I think a main reason for America&#8217;s unceasing warmongering is that it was never bombed to hell. In Europe, someone volunteering for the military is viewed, at best, as a weirdo. To kill for a living is no life.</p>
<p>The scary thing about the Bush regime&#8217;s exploitation of 9/11 is that I fell for it for some time in my pathetic effort to fit in, the idiotic over-compensating immigrant. Well, I&#8217;m done with this country&#8217;s system, military, financial, political. **** it. I&#8217;m European. A Europe of regions. At home in the Champagne, Umbria, Toscana, Catalunya etc. I had to go away to find my way home. Forgive me for this being not exactly a response to your post, Michael, but I just listened to this German song by Reinhard Mey and wanted to translate it for you guys and gals. It was written in response to the Iraq War. Lastly, thank you guys &#8211; Mark, Katherine, Michael and others &#8211; for helping me along.<br />
&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Born in a city destroyed by war I have heard, for as long as I can remember, &#8220;Never again war!&#8221;</p>
<p>I learned my lesson so well, saw the war up close, that even as a child I understood what happened.<br />
Some fears, I know, will never let go of me<br />
And images will not be erased from my mind.<br />
War is a crime, no war is ever just.</p>
<p>And you, who want to sell us on it and break that oath, you pious praying folk, are now banging the war drums to lead other people&#8217;s children into your battles.<br />
Remember, you never, ever again wanted war.</p>
<p>Down with your weapons!</p>
<p>They say, they&#8217;re just doing their job, just doing their duty.<br />
However harmless you want to make it sound, you&#8217;re not fooling us.</p>
<p>The job means to place mines, the duty to bomb<br />
Destroy, maim, eradicate and liquidate,<br />
means scorched earth, hunting people down<br />
and wounding your soul forever.</p>
<p>Sometimes I see a child&#8217;s face under that helmet, on it sheer terror when it realizes for what shameful deeds, for what filthy crimes it had signed up.<br />
You will never rid yourself of that guilt, never.</p>
<p>Never again war, down with the weapons.</p>
<p>Do you believe that, in your godforsaken hole in the desert sand, you&#8217;re defending your children, your village or your country ? Do you think that if you come stomping in your big high tech boots, bombing the country back to the stone age, you could liberate it through bloodshed ? Shoot peace into the heart of men ?</p>
<p>No, you are being abused for an evil cause &#8211; for power, for oil, for steel so that the military engine can keep humming.<br />
This pack that, as they please, puts a target on your back at the end of the world.</p>
<p>Refuse to obey, say Never again. Never again war.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/#comment-63464</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 05:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=9821#comment-63464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Pinky - 

Part three will explain in more detail my claim that 9/11 was both an interruption and a non-interruption. (In short, it was an interruption that could not be allowed to remain an interruption.) It will also suggest that whatever security many americans have experienced has been at a tremendous cost, but that the memories of these costs has been excluded from the master narrative of the united states. In other words, americans suffer from a selective memory or historical amnesia. 

This post is obviously just an introduction, so stay tuned for parts 2-4 where I flesh this out a little more. Thanks for reading so far!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Pinky &#8211; </p>
<p>Part three will explain in more detail my claim that 9/11 was both an interruption and a non-interruption. (In short, it was an interruption that could not be allowed to remain an interruption.) It will also suggest that whatever security many americans have experienced has been at a tremendous cost, but that the memories of these costs has been excluded from the master narrative of the united states. In other words, americans suffer from a selective memory or historical amnesia. </p>
<p>This post is obviously just an introduction, so stay tuned for parts 2-4 where I flesh this out a little more. Thanks for reading so far!</p>
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		<title>By: Pinky</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/09/11/we-will-never-forget-metz-memory-and-the-dangerous-spirituality-of-post-911-america-part-i/#comment-63463</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pinky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 04:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=9821#comment-63463</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that, for most Americans, 9/11 did constitute a violent interruption of a peaceful life.  You may consider our national path to be violent, but most of us have experienced relative security.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that, for most Americans, 9/11 did constitute a violent interruption of a peaceful life.  You may consider our national path to be violent, but most of us have experienced relative security.</p>
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