A day late, but interesting piece on Obama and Benedict
July 10, 2009
Read it here.
Hat tip: Kari Lundgren
12 Comments
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As I mentioned yesterday I found the article disappointing. Including now the line we here that the Pope’Economic viewpoints are to the “left” of Obama. I am not getting that Pope Benedict was saying that all or was trying to make a points about various economic plans.
I am not sure that the Pope has thought on the President’s stimulus bill or he has thoughts on the long term debt the Country is getting or he supports card check
I suspect that he might not be thrilled with the continued subsidaries of Agricultural(like occured under Bush). I am not sure what his position is on Obama not ratifying the Colubia Free Trade agreement is. Many of these are of course not “right” or “left” positions
I do suspect that he is thrilled that it appears the US will continue the Africa project that will had the last past 8 years and might even accelerate. Many of those things can be alluded to in the document
That being said the more tiresome thing is how he described the Bishops. I would be pretty shocked that many of them would consider themselves conservative. The fact it is implied that the Bishops were not going to work with Obama untill recently I think is a heavy charge.
FOr instance Cardinal Dinardo was very upfront about his oppostion ot the Obama visit ot Notre Dame. But I cannot imagine that he has not been making calls and doing work with this adminsitration on the issue of immigration reform. Since it is likely I suspect he will become the front man for the issue which is a relief.
There appears to me to be a attempt to set up a false conflict. Many of these same voices were all predicting when Pope Benedict came to the USA he was going to give Bush a public lashing. That relations were cold etc etc. So I am not sure how much I trust their vast knowledge.
One gets a sense of Deja Vu about all this. I kept hearing how far right or conservative Catholcis were going to be upset about what Pope Benedict wrote in his book about Catialism Of course when you read it you realized it did not meet the headlines.
I need to read Dionne more often.
In fact, whether he is the beneficiary of providence or merely good luck, Obama will have his audience with Benedict just three days after the release of a papal encyclical on social justice that places the pope well to Obama’s left on economics. What a delightful surprise it would be for a pope to tell our president that on some matters, he’s just too conservative.
That’s certainly my beef with Obama – he is too beholden to the power of economic elites to qualify as a true “liberal” (as compared to, say, Harry S. Truman) in my book.
The conservative minority among the bishops as well as political activists on the Catholic right have insisted on judging the president only on the basis of his support for legal abortion and stem cell research.
But the Vatican clearly views Obama through a broader prism. Archbishop Pietro Sambi, the papal nuncio in Washington, has privately warned American bishops that harsh attacks on the president threaten to make the church look partisan.
I’m glad someone in authority is saying that – the Church is not supposed to be either The Republican or Democratic Party On Its Knees.
The Vatican press has been largely sympathetic to Obama, and in a recent article, Cardinal Georges Cottier, who was the theologian of the papal household under Pope John Paul II, praised Obama’s “humble realism” and on abortion went so far as to compare the president’s approach to that of St. Thomas Aquinas. (Pray this won’t go to Obama’s head.)
Hoo boy…I fear that popping sound I just heard was Weigel’s head exploding.
Matt as to the Vatican Press
Again that is of much controversy and it appears That was the good Cardinal was relying on when he said Obama did not think there was a “right” to a abortion. Which if true would have indicated a huge sesmic shift in the Dem party.Of course that is not true. She also ignores what was highlighted on Stem Cells in the Vatican Newspaper (which of course has many voices) on Stem cells just days ago)
It seems to me that the Vatican (which makes statements at times of course on these issues) has the tradtional attitude of letting the Bishops manage the Church locally as to these issues.
I guess every 4 to 8 years we have these stories but different people and different faces
Is still say the most incorrect thing she had to say was about the Bishops. Many U.S. Bishops were against the Iraq war. They also opposed the Bush administration in various areas. But they still worked with the White House on mnay important issues and very closely
I guess what disturbs me about this dynamic is a assumption. That American Catholics should be careful of criticizing the President on major issues because he can be on our friend on the others
It never occured to me that take that line of logic with Catholics that opposed Bush. Like don’t criticize Bush on Iraq because he is going to help us try to bring 20 million people out of the shadows. Or don’t criticize Bush on enhanced interrogation because we are going to need his help on Faith Based programs and vouchers.
I really think one can do both.
Ok. I want to start hearing how the pope handing Obama a copy of Dignitas Personae is evidence of the Vatican’s swooning love for Obama and how out of touch pro-life American Catholics and bishops are with the Vatican.
“Ok. I want to start hearing how the pope handing Obama a copy of Dignitas Personae is evidence of the Vatican’s swooning love for Obama and how out of touch pro-life American Catholics and bishops are with the Vatican.”
Well the tal of Pro-life issues can no longer be dismised as cultural warriors
On the other issues we have to have a debate an honest one about how to achieve it
Ok. I want to start hearing how the pope handing Obama a copy of Dignitas Personae is evidence of the Vatican’s swooning love for Obama and how out of touch pro-life American Catholics and bishops are with the Vatican.
The approach of the Pope is obviously vastly different from the approach of american “pro-life” republican Catholics. His gesture speaks volumes.
“The approach of the Pope is obviously vastly different from the approach of american “pro-life” republican Catholics. His gesture speaks volumes.”
How so? I am not sure but I hear a tone of disapproval toward us GOP Pro-Life Catholics. What have we been doing wrong. I say we in a quite broad way since you know we are not Carbon copies of each others and we are doing the best we can to our limited talents
By the way by comrade from Louisiana did not talk about “GOP” Catholics bit pro-life Catholics in general
Here is another interesting article on the Pope and the President. The headline really makes you pause and think.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/205961
It would be a good opportunity for a more balanced discussion on the problems with the American Catholic scene but since it doesn’t deal with torture or economics so much and just reiterates the usual Catholic lefitst complaints about sex and gender and power, and it resorts to the all too common juvenile attacks on the Pope the Catholic left is known for, I don’t expect to see a post on it here at Vox Nova. It just doesn’t fit the meme round here. As they say on ZOOM, a show my kids watched on PBS, “Why do you think that is”?
Although, I know Mr. Rocha is relatively knew here to Vox Nova, so he might consider posting on this article. My lament was not directed at the author of this post specifically, just the blog site in general.
Tim F: No offense taken. I can only speak for myself here, especially as a newbie, but I think that my own short record of essays would challenge the impression you gave in your critique. Not to say that I am some exemplar of balance—not even close. But, I do think there is more to VN than you let on to in your counter-caricature.
To all: When I post a link with no commentary its usually because I am ambivalent about it and just want to share it with you. So, I hope I didn’t leave any unnecessary implications out there.
How so? I am not sure but I hear a tone of disapproval toward us GOP Pro-Life Catholics. What have we been doing wrong
I don’t know about you. I will say that the GOP pro-life Catholics who I actually know and intgeract with are people I generally respect. However, they are not people who say it is sin to, on one or more occassions, to vote for a candidate who doesn’t fully share one’s views or strategies on life issues public policy.
As for most on-line GOP pro-life Catholic commentators, it is really a hard papal slam against them.
The Pope clearly has a multi-issue social agenda. He does not write from the school of thought of: “rank your concerns. Determine which is #1. Ignore issues #2 downward. Call other people sinners (or bad Catholics) if they don’t support your political strategy for addressing #1. “
I found the intervention by Sambi to be very telling.