To Deal with Dracula, Don’t Become Mr. Hyde
War, it is said, is not an intrinsic evil. What, exactly, do people think this means? Do we want to say that any act of war, no matter how horrible and vile it is, because it is an act of war, is now less evil than the act of lying (which is an intrinsic evil)? In his war efforts, could Hitler argue that he really wasn’t that bad? Could Lenin be allowed to say that the Communist Revolution in Russia was fine, because it was a civil war, and we really can’t judge the ethics of war? If one views a mother is at war with their child, does it make abortion somehow less evil?
Obviously, the answer is no. Whether or not a thing is evil in and of itself is different from the quality of evil, once a thing is recognized as evil. Just because a war is not necessarily evil does not mean a given war is not worse, more evil, than something which is recognized as evil.
Everything, even things which are intrinsically evil, are done according to some moral scale which sees a good in place of the evil. What is it that makes people do evil? What good is it that they are trying achieve? Look for that, and address it. Transform the evil from within. That’s the way to conversion.
Any other reaction, you end up making a monster out of yourself.
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Where I grew up there weren’t many trees
Where there was we’d tear them down
And use them on our enemies
They say that what you mock
Will surely overtake you
And you become a monster
So the monster will not break you
u2-peace on earth
Mark
Right, U2 understood this human tendency. I’ve always loved this song, btw.
Henry,
Interesting thoughts. I appreciate your turn to conversion at the end. I think this is often a piece which is missing in the conversation, or dismissed as impractical.
I am always perplexed by the language of intrinsic evil. In some ways I find the arguments for or against something, particularly war, as a way to find wiggle room. What if we asked if something, such as way, was a sin?
Is there a point here?
Obviously, there are great dangers in the use of the term “intrinsic evil”, which just means that every instance of an act is sinful.
Which brings up the issue of lying: is lying really intrinsically evil? Is every act of lying a sin?
What if you’re planning to attend a surprise party for someone on Tuedsay, and they ask you what you’re doing on Tuesday, and you say, “Oh, I’m gonna stay home and read a book.”?
What if you lie to save someone’s life?
lewiscrusade,
You asked the right person! Henry wrote a nine-part, 17,000-word series on lying. Here is the link to Part IX, which has the links to all the previous parts at the beginning.
What if you’re planning to attend a surprise party for someone on Tuedsay, and they ask you what you’re doing on Tuesday, and you say, “Oh, I’m gonna stay home and read a book.”?
You should tell a partial truth, be evasive, or give a true but misleading answer. You could say, “I’m hoping to get some reading done Tuesday.” Or, “With my social life, what in the world makes you think I am doing anything?” Or, “I have to go out that night.”
Use the same techniques you would use on the witness stand to avoid a conviction but also to avoid perjury charges. :-)
That’s still a deception.
It’s a nice intellectual sophistry, but it’s still deception.
There is a school of Catholic ethics, taught, among others, by St. Teresa of Avila, by which one should never admit to not feeling well. St. Teresa, the patroness of migraines, knew a lot about chronic pain and said that, if you’re really sick, people will know it, and if you’re just feeling uncomfortalbe, you should put up with it. So, in either case, if people ask, you’re supposed to say you’re fine.
Is that not a lie?
1753 A good intention (for example, that of helping one’s neighbor) does not make behavior that is intrinsically disordered, such as lying and calumny, good or just. The end does not justify the means. Thus the condemnation of an innocent person cannot be justified as a legitimate means of saving the nation. On the other hand, an added bad intention (such as vainglory) makes an act evil that, in and of itself, can be good (such as almsgiving)
Now, wait. We’ve shifted from “intrinsically evil” to “intrinsically disordered.” Whatever happened to there’s mortal sin, and there’s venial sin. And that’s that. What’s the difference between “intrinsically evil” and “intrinsically disordered”? There seems to be one, because precision of language is important to the Church.
And intention does play a role in sin, especially if you don’t realize what you’re doing is wrong.
I am essentially agreeing with your original point, although from a different angle.
My angle is that Vatican II and postconciliar documents are too wishy washy and use a lot of obscure jargon to complicate what are really simple matters, so that it comes down to a point where, as you argued, if you use “intrinsic evil” as the standard, telling someone a so-called “white lie” is worse than warfare.
But inrinsic evil only means something that is always wrong (and I still cannot accept that “lying” is always wrong, and an out of context proof text from the Catechism is inadequate to that end, because one must delve deeper into what is meant by “lying”), but, as the paragraph you note concludes, there are other things that are not intrinsically evil that can still be mortally sinful, given their intent.
But “mortal sin” is a dirty word in Progressive Catholicism.
JC
“Intrinsically evil” doesn’t mean it is “mortal sin.” You are confusing qualities. I gave only a TRANSLATION from the CCC. If you want, you can find many documents and sources which list lying as an intrinsic evil. It is quite clear you didn’t do what was suggested — READ THE SERIES ON LYING. I gave a QUICK extra reply. The series on lying gives the answers.
“Intrinsic evil” is itself NOT A VII issue. Intrinsic/extrinsic evil is one question. Mortal sin vs venial sin is one question. The problem is not VII or VII document. The problem is misuse of terms.
Exactly, and you are confusing terms. You’re conflating a venial sin, lying, with a mortal sin, unjust warfare.
Everyone throws around “intrinsic evil” and conflates it with “mortal sin.”
If you (or the Church) is going to throw out a list of a whole bunch of things that are wrong and call them “intrinsic evils”, then use such a list to condemn waterboarding, or the war in Iraq, or whatever, then that’s disingenuous.
If I tell my kid, “OH, that’s a present for another kid,” that’s not a mortal sin.
That’s my point.
Your original post was talking about the apparent confusoin that war is not intrinsically evil but lying (according to your reading of the Catechism) is.
But the difference is just the one I raised: personal sin versus the evil of the act.