Sounds Like a Ticking Bomb Scenario To Me…
From the Washington Post:
“The man charged with murdering a high-profile abortion doctor claimed from his jail cell Sunday that similar violence was planned around the nation for as long as the procedure remained legal, a threat that comes days after a federal investigation launched into his possible accomplices.”
If this is the case, then why not subject Roeder to the “enhanced interrogation techniques” that clearly, according to the Cheneyists, do not constitute torture, and are quite helpful in gathering information to save lives? Why not waterboard him? Why not subject him to sensory deprivation? Why not subject him to prolonged stress standing? Why not prevent him sleeping for weeks on end? Why not slam him against the wall for hours on end? Why not hang him from the ceiling in excruciating pain? Why not put him in a cold cell with no clothes? Why not threaten the lives of his family and friends? Why not…? Why are the Cheneyists so silent? Don’t these techniques work so well? Or do they only work against non-Americans?
Comments are closed.
I find this post imflamatory and looking for a tick-for-tack, retributive interpretation of the situation for the sake of polemics. In my view, I don’t think it helps dialogue. It certainly add nothing good to our consideration of the meaning of torture and murder and their specific meanings in these cases. It might be something to remove completely. Unless, of course, I am missing something you intend to share here. If I did, then, sorry in advance.
Not sure I understand where you are coming from, Sam. If torture is as great as the Cheneyists complain, why are they so quiet about the domestic potential? I think the answer is that they value human dignity of non-American murderers less than the human dignity of American murderers.
Although I am against torture, I fail to see the point of this post. A torture-supporter can simply say “Roeder is a lunatic with delusions of grandeur and thus poses no real threat and ought not be subject to these techniques” and be done with it.
As far as domestic potential, if from what I understand of “24″ is true, they’re fine with that too.
One of the things that makes torture so dangerous to democracy is that it metastasizes; once it is ok to use on foreigners, it becomes conceivable to use it on citizens (“only in certain very narrow circumstances” of course, and with a court order, etc…) and then no one is safe.
For all the talk from the right about national health care or auto company bailouts being “tyranny” or “threats to freedom,” their relative silence in the face of real, actual tyranny and threats to freedom speaks volumes. The right wing scares me deeply.
The Cheneyite logic runs something like this: you can do whatever you want to people you find in Afghanistan because they aren’t Americans, and Americans have special American rights that you can only have if you were born in America. So you can’t do that stuff to Americans, it says so in the Constitution.
Indeed, here I think MM has a point. There is no reason in theory that a “domestic terrorist” should NOT be subjected to the “techniques,” the efficacy of which Cheney defends. According to his logic, none of these techniques would constitute “torturing” an American citizen. So if it is credible that the prisoner has information regarding an attack on American citizens (and this is not at all conclusive), then why not? Wouldn’t it be, in Cheney’s eyes, a potentially cataclysmic oversight not to?
Despite what others on the right may think, I think Cheney has given us sufficient grounds to critique his position voraciously.
Pax Christi,
It is amazing the ones that are against waterboarding have no problem with abortions.
ones that are against waterboarding have no problem with abortions
Who are you talking about? Nobody here, I should think.
Look at the history of torture–as, say, in “Reformation” England; it does, indeed, metastasize throughout the legal system, once it gets its foot in the door, culturally.
Personally, I think Cheney is heading for a war crimes trial, and that he fears it.
I also think that the clever folks around Obama are giving him enough rope to hang himself.
The trial will probably begin here in Europe, possibly in Spain, but the Obama Administration, while refusing always to extradite a former Vice President, will willingly supply sufficient evidence to the European Court to convict him and his accomplices.
“Personally, I think Cheney is heading for a war crimes trial,…”
In our dreams only – it is not going to happen.
Life will go on just fine.