Following precisely from what you’ve written here, doesn’t it follow logically that when Muslims and other people in the developing world see the officials of the United States Central Intelligence Agency using a “torture policy” which, speaking practically, has been PROVED NOT TO WORK, the damage done to our defense forces everywhere in the world arises precisely BECAUSE we are being perceived to use a method that, strictly speaking, does NOT defend us, and can be assumed, therefore, to arise out of vindictiveness, racist attitudes of superiority, or, perhaps–as in the instance of the actual policy in Iraq–a desire to misrepresent to our own people the REASONS for invading a country?

And the reason for my last comment above is that, as I understand “just war teaching,” the practical objective of a “just war”–that is, the object, or people, or “cause” being defended–has to be KNOWN in advance to be actually benefited by the “war of defense.”

To put it another way, the ineffectiveness of torture is PART of its immorality, and to discount the EVIDENCE of its ineffectiveness is a CRUCIAL CONSIDERATION in determining its ethical appropriateness–just as it is with “just war.”

Though this is an important consideration, it’s far from the only reason I’ve given here. As you’ve read my posts and comments on the subject, you should know this.

Which, again, supports my point: If the argument against “legalized” torture is just that it leads to bad publicity, then the obvious answer (from someone convinced that torture sometimes is necessary) would be that torture should be an “extra-legal” option. Just keep quiet, preserve plausible deniability, etc.

For this to be true, one of two things would have to be the case. Either people who support torture really don’t care about whether it is effective, or they are somehow uniquely unwilling to accept arguments against the effectiveness of torture (as opposed to, say, arguments against the effectiveness of the minimum wage, affirmative action, etc.) Neither of these possibilities seems very plausible to me, but if you have some evidence in favor of one or the other of them, I’d be glad to hear it.