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	<title>Comments on: Like Breadlines, But For Healthcare</title>
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	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Of Bootleggers and Baptists &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52587</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Of Bootleggers and Baptists &#171; Vox Nova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Of Bootleggers and&#160;Baptists  Last week I was accused of being a stooge for the powerful. It wasn&#8217;t the first time, and it probably won&#8217;t be the last. What did I say that caused this charge? I suggested that the market should be given a greater role in the provision of health care. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Of Bootleggers and&nbsp;Baptists  Last week I was accused of being a stooge for the powerful. It wasn&#8217;t the first time, and it probably won&#8217;t be the last. What did I say that caused this charge? I suggested that the market should be given a greater role in the provision of health care. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Of Bootleggers and Baptists &#171; Blackadder&#8217;s Lair</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52586</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Of Bootleggers and Baptists &#171; Blackadder&#8217;s Lair]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Of Bootleggers and&#160;Baptists Last week I was accused of being a stooge for the powerful. It wasn&#8217;t the first time, and it probably won&#8217;t be the last. What did I say that caused this charge? I suggested that the market should be given a greater role in the provision of health care. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Of Bootleggers and&nbsp;Baptists Last week I was accused of being a stooge for the powerful. It wasn&#8217;t the first time, and it probably won&#8217;t be the last. What did I say that caused this charge? I suggested that the market should be given a greater role in the provision of health care. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald A. Naus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald A. Naus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 23:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Healthcare is always going to be a mess. No company or government likes to provide a service. You&#039;re always the beggar in this situation. However, companies are probably more likely to screw you since they face stockholders, not elections. 

What obviously has to go is that health insurance is tied to a job. Apart from losing insurance altogether, the switching of doctors isn&#039;t exactly wonderful either. I wonder if this is another uniquely American idiocy. I certainly hadn&#039;t thought such a thing to be possible. Now, if Apple had a healthcare branch, we could talk.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Healthcare is always going to be a mess. No company or government likes to provide a service. You&#8217;re always the beggar in this situation. However, companies are probably more likely to screw you since they face stockholders, not elections. </p>
<p>What obviously has to go is that health insurance is tied to a job. Apart from losing insurance altogether, the switching of doctors isn&#8217;t exactly wonderful either. I wonder if this is another uniquely American idiocy. I certainly hadn&#8217;t thought such a thing to be possible. Now, if Apple had a healthcare branch, we could talk.</p>
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		<title>By: DarwinCatholic</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52432</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DarwinCatholic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kurt,

&lt;i&gt;You assume wrong. I’ve met many and they have made their views clear.&lt;/i&gt;

I think everyone gets that your subtext in these kinds of comments is, &quot;I was very deeply offended by what many pro-lifers said about Obama supporters during the last election, and as a result I&#039;ve decided that most pro-lifers are hateful people and refuse to call myself one.&quot;  

The thing is, applying this as a subtext to lots of passive aggressive statements is actually not any more interesting than if you repeated it explicitly all the time.  I think that most of us get what you&#039;re saying, and perhaps even sympathize just a tiny bit (after all, I have plenty of people assure me that I hate the poor, blacks, Palestinians, sick people, etc. because of my political commitments, so I&#039;m used to unjustified hyperbole) but the pity party is a bit much.  You&#039;re better and smarter than that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kurt,</p>
<p><i>You assume wrong. I’ve met many and they have made their views clear.</i></p>
<p>I think everyone gets that your subtext in these kinds of comments is, &#8220;I was very deeply offended by what many pro-lifers said about Obama supporters during the last election, and as a result I&#8217;ve decided that most pro-lifers are hateful people and refuse to call myself one.&#8221;  </p>
<p>The thing is, applying this as a subtext to lots of passive aggressive statements is actually not any more interesting than if you repeated it explicitly all the time.  I think that most of us get what you&#8217;re saying, and perhaps even sympathize just a tiny bit (after all, I have plenty of people assure me that I hate the poor, blacks, Palestinians, sick people, etc. because of my political commitments, so I&#8217;m used to unjustified hyperbole) but the pity party is a bit much.  You&#8217;re better and smarter than that.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nickol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Wait a few years, then get back to me.&lt;/i&gt;

If I am around in a few years, I will be living proof that they don&#039;t kill off the old, the sick, and the elderly!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Wait a few years, then get back to me.</i></p>
<p>If I am around in a few years, I will be living proof that they don&#8217;t kill off the old, the sick, and the elderly!</p>
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		<title>By: blackadderiv</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blackadderiv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:55:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Medicare will pay for a heart transplant under very limited conditions. Nobody has suggested killing all those who don’t qualify.&lt;/i&gt;

Wait a few years, then get back to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Medicare will pay for a heart transplant under very limited conditions. Nobody has suggested killing all those who don’t qualify.</i></p>
<p>Wait a few years, then get back to me.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52421</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nickol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It does seem to me that it is a giant leap from (a) limiting the amount paid for health care to (b) euthanasia. I just did a very quick search (so the results are not guaranteed to be accurate) but it looks like Medicare will pay for a heart transplant under very limited conditions. Nobody has suggested killing all those who don&#039;t qualify.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does seem to me that it is a giant leap from (a) limiting the amount paid for health care to (b) euthanasia. I just did a very quick search (so the results are not guaranteed to be accurate) but it looks like Medicare will pay for a heart transplant under very limited conditions. Nobody has suggested killing all those who don&#8217;t qualify.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52419</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nickol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:27:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I assume that you are joking here, but this sort of thing really does scare me. &lt;/i&gt;

BA,

I was (of course) joking, but it does seem to me that the fact that so small a number of people account for such a large percentage of health-care spending is a relevant fact. I am not exactly sure what to make of it, though. Should government-sponsored health care or private insurance cover expensive procedures that don&#039;t significantly prolong life? As I said above, cost is one of the factors in Catholic thought that is considered when deciding what constitutes &quot;extraordinary measures&quot; to prolong life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I assume that you are joking here, but this sort of thing really does scare me. </i></p>
<p>BA,</p>
<p>I was (of course) joking, but it does seem to me that the fact that so small a number of people account for such a large percentage of health-care spending is a relevant fact. I am not exactly sure what to make of it, though. Should government-sponsored health care or private insurance cover expensive procedures that don&#8217;t significantly prolong life? As I said above, cost is one of the factors in Catholic thought that is considered when deciding what constitutes &#8220;extraordinary measures&#8221; to prolong life.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52418</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kurt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 20:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52418</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BA,

You have every right to make those assumptions that seem accurate or likely to you, and to behave accordingly.  And I have the same right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BA,</p>
<p>You have every right to make those assumptions that seem accurate or likely to you, and to behave accordingly.  And I have the same right.</p>
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		<title>By: S.B.</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52417</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[S.B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52417</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Given the state of our culture, I fully expect a lot of people to start seeing euthanasia as a good cost cutting measure. &lt;/i&gt;

Particularly when you consider that the people who would be managing any greater government involvement in healthcare in the US are the same people who vote for &quot;voluntary&quot; euthanasia laws, who appoint federal judges that hold it unconstitutional for states to restrict voluntary suicide, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Given the state of our culture, I fully expect a lot of people to start seeing euthanasia as a good cost cutting measure. </i></p>
<p>Particularly when you consider that the people who would be managing any greater government involvement in healthcare in the US are the same people who vote for &#8220;voluntary&#8221; euthanasia laws, who appoint federal judges that hold it unconstitutional for states to restrict voluntary suicide, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: blackadderiv</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52416</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blackadderiv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;You assume wrong. I’ve met many and they have made their views clear.&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t say this often, Kurt, but I think you&#039;re lying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You assume wrong. I’ve met many and they have made their views clear.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t say this often, Kurt, but I think you&#8217;re lying.</p>
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		<title>By: blackadderiv</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/04/07/like-breadlines-but-for-healthcare/#comment-52415</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blackadderiv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6659#comment-52415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Isn’t it part of Catholic social teaching that everyone has a right to health care? Are you implying the best way to guarantee that right is to leave everything to the free market?&lt;/i&gt;

Yes and yes (okay, so &quot;everything&quot; is perhaps a bit strong, but I do think limiting government intervention in the provision of healthcare to something closer to the level of intervention in the provision of food would be a good thing). 

&lt;i&gt;Doesn’t Obama’s plan to kill the sick, the elderly, and the disabled make great sense once you realize how expensive these people are?&lt;/i&gt;

I assume that you are joking here, but this sort of thing really does scare me. When I look at the numbers, it seems quite clear that the government is not going to pay for amount of healthcare for which it has already agreed to provide (let alone all that the government will be promising to provide if Obama has his way). Given the state of our culture, I fully expect a lot of people to start seeing euthanasia as a good cost cutting measure. 

&lt;i&gt;If you were elected president, what would be your approach to health care?&lt;/i&gt;

Bearing in mind that the president is not a dictator who can just pass whatever he wants, I laid out some of my ideas on the issue &lt;a href=&quot;http://vox-nova.com/2007/10/22/a-catholic-free-market-approach-to-healthcare/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;in this post&lt;/a&gt;. Some alternative proposals that I find interesting are described &lt;a href=&quot;http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2007/06/dealing_with_th.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://econlog.econlib.org//archives/2008/01/singapores_heal.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Isn’t it part of Catholic social teaching that everyone has a right to health care? Are you implying the best way to guarantee that right is to leave everything to the free market?</i></p>
<p>Yes and yes (okay, so &#8220;everything&#8221; is perhaps a bit strong, but I do think limiting government intervention in the provision of healthcare to something closer to the level of intervention in the provision of food would be a good thing). </p>
<p><i>Doesn’t Obama’s plan to kill the sick, the elderly, and the disabled make great sense once you realize how expensive these people are?</i></p>
<p>I assume that you are joking here, but this sort of thing really does scare me. When I look at the numbers, it seems quite clear that the government is not going to pay for amount of healthcare for which it has already agreed to provide (let alone all that the government will be promising to provide if Obama has his way). Given the state of our culture, I fully expect a lot of people to start seeing euthanasia as a good cost cutting measure. </p>
<p><i>If you were elected president, what would be your approach to health care?</i></p>
<p>Bearing in mind that the president is not a dictator who can just pass whatever he wants, I laid out some of my ideas on the issue <a href="http://vox-nova.com/2007/10/22/a-catholic-free-market-approach-to-healthcare/" rel="nofollow">in this post</a>. Some alternative proposals that I find interesting are described <a href="http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2007/06/dealing_with_th.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, and <a href="http://econlog.econlib.org//archives/2008/01/singapores_heal.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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