That’s pretty much the definition of fascistic thinking.

The flat doesn’t stand for any politician. ANY. It stands for the nation. I guess the difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals identify the nation with its government while conservatives do not.

Archbishop Demetrios, Primate of N. & S. America for the Greek Orthodox Church attended festivities at the abortuary known as 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. He clearly expressed support for the murder of innocents by bestowing honors on Barry H. Obama, handing him a certificate on behalf of the Orthodox “Church”. He even called Obama “Great”.

I am attempting to schedule a meeting with William Donohue of the Catholic League to coordinate a petition drive by faithful Catholics demanding that the Pope stop all ecumenical relations with the Greek Orthodox Church. It would be a scandal if this “archbishop,” so tolerant of baby-killing, were to be invited to any Catholic facility. If Donohue raises the issue of re-launching the 4th Crusade, I am willing to hear him out.

have you guys heard they’re talking about advertising abortion on the teevee here in england?

Mark has banned me, deleted my posts, and misrepresented them before. But it’s ok when he does it. But if Zippy is taken to task, not for a position, but for his childish inability to be accurate about the one he is insulting, then I am the bad one here.

Mark Shea, what a hypocrite: you have banned me on your blog and deleted my posts. Interesting is it not, what you say here and do otherwise?

More importantly, Zippy’s continued behavior, which is never accurate in presenting the views and positions of others, went way beyond the call of duty in this thread, and properly earned his exile, when he has to continue to lie to make his point. He isn’t into truth. Nor, Mark, are you.

There you have it.

I’m glad popularity determines truth for you. It is very likely that many will cheer at ND.

I don’t believe popularity determines truth. I simply reject that it is a matter of “truth” that the President’s speech at Notre Dame is statement of support for his abortion policy.

Listen, we all win. The students, faculty and guests will make a choice if they think the President is worthy of honor or not. This adds to my side a substantial number of people, always helpful when we operate under a system of electoral democracy. And for your side, it puts the hard-core, “orthodox” element more in control of the pro-life movement, advancing you and your fellow travelers into greater dominance of the movement. Happiness all around.

I did not say he was pro-abortion. I said he was pro-choice. Being pro-choice simply means a person currently opposes legal restrictions on abortion. The question of why he is pro-choice is another matter. But to deny that the position outlined above is pro-choice, is to alter the meaning of the word in the manner of Humpty Dumpty (if we’re doing literary references):

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone,’ it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’

That is not exactly Gerald’s position. Even if he were pro choice, that would not make him pro-abortion, or not against it. Remember that. However, he is not pro choice. He has said many times what his position is, and it is more complex than a simple gotcha with him. His point is that at this point in time, the United States just can’t immediately go from where we are to the forceful laws against abortion; to do so would do violence to the system and indeed requires a tyrannical use of force (Tolkien connection: why Galadriel and Gandalf avoid the Ring, though they would do good). In this way he has said the thing is to prepare the people to get them against abortion themselves, which is better; it is better to have no laws and no abortion and laws with abortion constantly going on despite the laws (which he believes would happen). Which again is why it is about method to the end, not the end itself.