<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Conservative Leninists</title>
	<atom:link href="http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 03:15:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steele Yourself&#8230; &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-50652</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steele Yourself&#8230; &#171; Vox Nova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-50652</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] in what this group sees as a &#8220;war&#8221;, using tactics that are almost Marxist in tone. As Sam Tanenhaus described the modern American pseudo-conservative movement: “In place of the Marxist dialectic [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in what this group sees as a &#8220;war&#8221;, using tactics that are almost Marxist in tone. As Sam Tanenhaus described the modern American pseudo-conservative movement: “In place of the Marxist dialectic [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: LCB</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-49008</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LCB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 02:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-49008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d really like a discussion of Ayn Rand on this blog.  I think it would be very interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d really like a discussion of Ayn Rand on this blog.  I think it would be very interesting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TeutonicTim</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48996</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TeutonicTim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 00:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting a big government control freak would be interested in finding &quot;proof&quot; that &quot;conservatives&quot; are leninists...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting a big government control freak would be interested in finding &#8220;proof&#8221; that &#8220;conservatives&#8221; are leninists&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DarwinCatholic</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48946</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DarwinCatholic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tanenhaus’s article struck me as interesting, but in many ways very ideologically self serving.  He praises what he claims is a Burke/Disraeli patterns of conservatism in which government management of some services is not rejected out of hand, but in which the suspicion of revolutionary political and social change is retained.  Yet he blasts Kirk and other conservatives of the 50s and 60s precisely for opposing the revolutionary changes in public programs (such as the Great Society) which he admits ushered in vast social changes.  His justification for this is an insistence that this &quot;true conservatism&quot; does not attempt to radically roll back changes which have already become accepted.  He&#039;s in part right on this.  Principled conservatives do not (contrary to his assertion and your echo of it) advocate suddenly abolishing vast government programs which people have come to rely on as a life assumption -- though they may well advocate reshaping their structure or growth in such a way as to focus their efforts and gradually wean people off dependency.  But the way he formulates it, he puts conservatives in a catch-22.  He commends them for opposing radical change, yet blames them for actually opposing any particular change (or wanting to move away from some recent change) with the charge that they are either unwilling to use government programs where they &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; work or that their proposed changes are too radical.

It&#039;s all very well to assert:
&lt;i&gt;Many have observed that movement politics most clearly defines itself not by what it yearns to conserve but by what it longs to destroy--&quot;statist&quot; social programs; &quot;socialized medicine&quot;; &quot;big labor&quot;; &quot;activist&quot; Supreme Court justices, the &quot;media elite&quot;; &quot;tenured radicals&quot; on university faculties; &quot;experts&quot; in and out of government.&lt;/i&gt;
But what he misses here is that these objections are often made as holding actions rather than calls for sudden abolition.  When conservatives denounce &quot;socialized medicine&quot; they&#039;re attempt to keep from being newly imposed a radical change in a major sector of the economy which affects all of our common welfare, not attempting to abolish something which has become a standard social and economic assumption.  Similarly, cries against &quot;activist judges&quot; are generally attempts to keep seeing &lt;i&gt;more&lt;/i&gt; legislation from the bench.

As such, Tanenhaus’s overall approach strikes me as somewhat dishonest.  

Finally, a minor side note.  You say, &quot;I will stop taking Limbaugh seriously when the movement stops doing so.&quot;  You&#039;re of course entitled to do this if you so please, but it would seem to leave you totally open to people attempting to hang comments from Daily Kos or Al Franken or what have you about your neck with claims of, &quot;I&#039;ll stop taking them seriously when the progressive movement stops taking them seriously.&quot;  Intentionally taking the people who are known to be more populist and less reasonable within a large group as indicative of the group as a whole may work as a rhetorical ploy, but you might want to consider whether you want it used against you before you use it against others.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tanenhaus’s article struck me as interesting, but in many ways very ideologically self serving.  He praises what he claims is a Burke/Disraeli patterns of conservatism in which government management of some services is not rejected out of hand, but in which the suspicion of revolutionary political and social change is retained.  Yet he blasts Kirk and other conservatives of the 50s and 60s precisely for opposing the revolutionary changes in public programs (such as the Great Society) which he admits ushered in vast social changes.  His justification for this is an insistence that this &#8220;true conservatism&#8221; does not attempt to radically roll back changes which have already become accepted.  He&#8217;s in part right on this.  Principled conservatives do not (contrary to his assertion and your echo of it) advocate suddenly abolishing vast government programs which people have come to rely on as a life assumption &#8212; though they may well advocate reshaping their structure or growth in such a way as to focus their efforts and gradually wean people off dependency.  But the way he formulates it, he puts conservatives in a catch-22.  He commends them for opposing radical change, yet blames them for actually opposing any particular change (or wanting to move away from some recent change) with the charge that they are either unwilling to use government programs where they <i>do</i> work or that their proposed changes are too radical.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all very well to assert:<br />
<i>Many have observed that movement politics most clearly defines itself not by what it yearns to conserve but by what it longs to destroy&#8211;&#8221;statist&#8221; social programs; &#8220;socialized medicine&#8221;; &#8220;big labor&#8221;; &#8220;activist&#8221; Supreme Court justices, the &#8220;media elite&#8221;; &#8220;tenured radicals&#8221; on university faculties; &#8220;experts&#8221; in and out of government.</i><br />
But what he misses here is that these objections are often made as holding actions rather than calls for sudden abolition.  When conservatives denounce &#8220;socialized medicine&#8221; they&#8217;re attempt to keep from being newly imposed a radical change in a major sector of the economy which affects all of our common welfare, not attempting to abolish something which has become a standard social and economic assumption.  Similarly, cries against &#8220;activist judges&#8221; are generally attempts to keep seeing <i>more</i> legislation from the bench.</p>
<p>As such, Tanenhaus’s overall approach strikes me as somewhat dishonest.  </p>
<p>Finally, a minor side note.  You say, &#8220;I will stop taking Limbaugh seriously when the movement stops doing so.&#8221;  You&#8217;re of course entitled to do this if you so please, but it would seem to leave you totally open to people attempting to hang comments from Daily Kos or Al Franken or what have you about your neck with claims of, &#8220;I&#8217;ll stop taking them seriously when the progressive movement stops taking them seriously.&#8221;  Intentionally taking the people who are known to be more populist and less reasonable within a large group as indicative of the group as a whole may work as a rhetorical ploy, but you might want to consider whether you want it used against you before you use it against others.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerald A. Naus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48935</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald A. Naus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 07:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48935</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(unless you&#039;re vewy vewy scared of &quot;The Gays&quot; and their unholy desire to get married, that is)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(unless you&#8217;re vewy vewy scared of &#8220;The Gays&#8221; and their unholy desire to get married, that is)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gerald A. Naus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48934</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald A. Naus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 07:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48934</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, don&#039;t be so hard on Republicans. The GOP enables families to come together for wonderfully orchestrated military funerals.

Of course, Obama just commandeered 17,000 additional troops to Afghanistan. While it is a particularly Republican thing, it is in general an American thing to wage war ad infinitum.

&quot;Liberal&quot; and &quot;conservative&quot; within the American context doesn&#039;t differ all that much. Americanism is overarching. Democrats are to the right of Austria&#039;s conservatives. Not having health insurance or mandated minimum vacation, paid maternity leave etc. would be viewed as contemporaneous with &quot;Manchester Liberalism&quot;.

I&#039;d distinguish American vs. EuroCanadian. San Francisco is a EuroCanadian city. So is Seattle. Basically, there are two Americas. The differences within this country are far more pronounced than in Western Europe. Needless to say, you want to live in the EuroCanadian counties of the US.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, don&#8217;t be so hard on Republicans. The GOP enables families to come together for wonderfully orchestrated military funerals.</p>
<p>Of course, Obama just commandeered 17,000 additional troops to Afghanistan. While it is a particularly Republican thing, it is in general an American thing to wage war ad infinitum.</p>
<p>&#8220;Liberal&#8221; and &#8220;conservative&#8221; within the American context doesn&#8217;t differ all that much. Americanism is overarching. Democrats are to the right of Austria&#8217;s conservatives. Not having health insurance or mandated minimum vacation, paid maternity leave etc. would be viewed as contemporaneous with &#8220;Manchester Liberalism&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d distinguish American vs. EuroCanadian. San Francisco is a EuroCanadian city. So is Seattle. Basically, there are two Americas. The differences within this country are far more pronounced than in Western Europe. Needless to say, you want to live in the EuroCanadian counties of the US.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jonathanjones02</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48925</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonathanjones02]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48925</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;But it does not follow from this that the policies of the Republican party can be said to favor families and small businesses. Just because a constituency supports a party does not mean that the party supports that constituency.&lt;/i&gt;

True. Remember, though, that all political figures in a republic or democracy fail their constituency.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But it does not follow from this that the policies of the Republican party can be said to favor families and small businesses. Just because a constituency supports a party does not mean that the party supports that constituency.</i></p>
<p>True. Remember, though, that all political figures in a republic or democracy fail their constituency.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blackadderiv</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48924</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blackadderiv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The kinds of free market nostrums espoused by many of today’s pseudo-conservatives involve tearing down much of the agreed-upon economic framework of the last 70 years or so, and place ideology over practical solutions and prudence.&lt;/i&gt;

When I read a claim like this, I&#039;m tempted to quote Bagdad Bob: &quot;I regret to inform you that you are now too far from reality.&quot; For all the talk about &quot;laissez-faire restored&quot; when you look at the policy changes over the past generation what you find is (1) Airline and trucking deregulation (by Carter), (2) NAFTA (by Clinton), and (3) Welfare Reform (also by Clinton). That&#039;s about it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The kinds of free market nostrums espoused by many of today’s pseudo-conservatives involve tearing down much of the agreed-upon economic framework of the last 70 years or so, and place ideology over practical solutions and prudence.</i></p>
<p>When I read a claim like this, I&#8217;m tempted to quote Bagdad Bob: &#8220;I regret to inform you that you are now too far from reality.&#8221; For all the talk about &#8220;laissez-faire restored&#8221; when you look at the policy changes over the past generation what you find is (1) Airline and trucking deregulation (by Carter), (2) NAFTA (by Clinton), and (3) Welfare Reform (also by Clinton). That&#8217;s about it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: wj</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48922</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[wj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48922</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jonathanjones02 writes &quot;one important backbone of the current Republican Party is family and small business, and its been that way for several decades.&quot;

This is true.  But it does not follow from this that the policies of the Republican party can be said to favor families and small businesses.  Just because a constituency supports a party does not mean that the party supports that constituency.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jonathanjones02 writes &#8220;one important backbone of the current Republican Party is family and small business, and its been that way for several decades.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is true.  But it does not follow from this that the policies of the Republican party can be said to favor families and small businesses.  Just because a constituency supports a party does not mean that the party supports that constituency.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jonathanjones02</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonathanjones02]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The kinds of free market nostrums espoused by many of today’s pseudo-conservatives involve tearing down much of the agreed-upon economic framework of the last 70 years or so, and place ideology over practical solutions and prudence.&lt;/i&gt;

True, and very much true of their political antagonists. Let&#039;s complete the point. This something that traditionalist conservative Rod Dreher writes of frequently:

The American Left, especially on cultural issues, is firmly and deeply determined to impose their ideology, often in ways very, very, very undemocratic and I would argue harmful to the exchanges of the public square. This is especially true with regard to abortion and &quot;gay marriage,&quot; but we see it in a whole host of other issues. 

Dreher has a good column on this here: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/02/obama_wont_end_the_culture_war.html

See also Ross Douthat, who writes very insightfully on this point, for example here:
http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/02/the_end_of_the_culture_war.php]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The kinds of free market nostrums espoused by many of today’s pseudo-conservatives involve tearing down much of the agreed-upon economic framework of the last 70 years or so, and place ideology over practical solutions and prudence.</i></p>
<p>True, and very much true of their political antagonists. Let&#8217;s complete the point. This something that traditionalist conservative Rod Dreher writes of frequently:</p>
<p>The American Left, especially on cultural issues, is firmly and deeply determined to impose their ideology, often in ways very, very, very undemocratic and I would argue harmful to the exchanges of the public square. This is especially true with regard to abortion and &#8220;gay marriage,&#8221; but we see it in a whole host of other issues. </p>
<p>Dreher has a good column on this here: <a href="http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/02/obama_wont_end_the_culture_war.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/02/obama_wont_end_the_culture_war.html</a></p>
<p>See also Ross Douthat, who writes very insightfully on this point, for example here:<br />
<a href="http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/02/the_end_of_the_culture_war.php" rel="nofollow">http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/02/the_end_of_the_culture_war.php</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: S.B.</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48917</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[S.B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Many have observed that movement politics most clearly defines itself not by what it yearns to conserve but by what it longs to destroy–”statist” social programs; “socialized medicine”; “big labor”; “activist” Supreme Court justices, the “media elite”; “tenured radicals” on university faculties; “experts” in and out of government.”&lt;/i&gt;

An equally tendentious (but equally accurate) statement could be made about your political bedfellows (whether you want to call them &quot;liberals&quot; or not).  &quot;The left is defined by what it wants to destroy: traditional marriage, educational choice, industries that emit carbon, the original meaning of the US Constitution, and any restriction on killing human fetuses or experimenting upon them.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Many have observed that movement politics most clearly defines itself not by what it yearns to conserve but by what it longs to destroy–”statist” social programs; “socialized medicine”; “big labor”; “activist” Supreme Court justices, the “media elite”; “tenured radicals” on university faculties; “experts” in and out of government.”</i></p>
<p>An equally tendentious (but equally accurate) statement could be made about your political bedfellows (whether you want to call them &#8220;liberals&#8221; or not).  &#8220;The left is defined by what it wants to destroy: traditional marriage, educational choice, industries that emit carbon, the original meaning of the US Constitution, and any restriction on killing human fetuses or experimenting upon them.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Morning's Minion</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2009/02/17/conservative-leninists/#comment-48915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morning's Minion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/?p=6121#comment-48915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The issue is not so much Burke&#039;s views on every subject (which were firmly rooted in his own time) but the idea of progress through evolution over revolution. The kinds of free market nostrums espoused by many of today&#039;s pseudo-conservatives involve tearing down much of the agreed-upon economic framework of the last 70 years or so, and place ideology over practical solutions and prudence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is not so much Burke&#8217;s views on every subject (which were firmly rooted in his own time) but the idea of progress through evolution over revolution. The kinds of free market nostrums espoused by many of today&#8217;s pseudo-conservatives involve tearing down much of the agreed-upon economic framework of the last 70 years or so, and place ideology over practical solutions and prudence.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

