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	<title>Comments on: Catholic Bishops Challenge Obama On Unborn</title>
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	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: kurt</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43256</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kurt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Paladin --

So Obama is worse than Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore and Kerry. But there is the remaining question:  From a Catholic standpoint, is Obama (with the Democratic Congress) worse than the Spanish Republic of 1936?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paladin &#8211;</p>
<p>So Obama is worse than Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore and Kerry. But there is the remaining question:  From a Catholic standpoint, is Obama (with the Democratic Congress) worse than the Spanish Republic of 1936?</p>
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		<title>By: I am the State, the State is Me &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43243</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I am the State, the State is Me &#171; Vox Nova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 20:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] the primary goal of the pro-life movement. Zippy spoke in favor of the former and stated his case thusly:  The illegality of murder is more paramount. If there were a law sanctioning the murder black [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the primary goal of the pro-life movement. Zippy spoke in favor of the former and stated his case thusly:  The illegality of murder is more paramount. If there were a law sanctioning the murder black [...]</p>
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		<title>By: I am the State, the State is Me &#171; Blackadder&#8217;s Lair</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43235</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I am the State, the State is Me &#171; Blackadder&#8217;s Lair]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the primary goal of the pro-life movement. Zippy spoke in favor of the former and stated his case thusly:  The illegality of murder is more paramount. If there were a law sanctioning the murder black [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the primary goal of the pro-life movement. Zippy spoke in favor of the former and stated his case thusly:  The illegality of murder is more paramount. If there were a law sanctioning the murder black [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paladin</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paladin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 23:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David Nickol wrote:

&lt;i&gt;I am wondering if everyone who voted for the pro-choice presidential candidates Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry allegedly committed mortal sins.&lt;/i&gt;

In many cases, very probably.  I will point out that none of the other candidates, to my knowledge, explicitly promised to sign the Freedom of Choice act as his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.goodsearch.com/Redirect.aspx?type=1&amp;url=http://rc10.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg1nBSt5auwuf0L%5FiXEbqUkwwB5Zi0hM9qCpgKbdIshXRvU%5FYuPa7By%5FVIVO1mmn%5FSy%5FWT9NJjOqz2nv2UEwiNW1KBEf3%2D1YvSnN8wYPDyCMEY1eJxl%5Fqp3NkTZTxTci3oLoyoz7vBILLJDxhbiPBwvAvIq%5Fxu157hyLBBT%2D6bjQM6qAS7eMVXseVq2JOdRtJUFqQEO9SRhXfOfZ1WmoZ4kPv2M3hWbGuo%2D3BL7R2ebW865eufKZFa5uju3d7cOrvy2sxdHwTF9JwainT1rTqV39tuN1uyuQ%2E%2E&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;very first presidential act&lt;/a&gt;; that *would* bump up the gravity of the choice to vote for him, don&#039;t you think?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Nickol wrote:</p>
<p><i>I am wondering if everyone who voted for the pro-choice presidential candidates Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry allegedly committed mortal sins.</i></p>
<p>In many cases, very probably.  I will point out that none of the other candidates, to my knowledge, explicitly promised to sign the Freedom of Choice act as his <a href="http://www.goodsearch.com/Redirect.aspx?type=1&amp;url=http://rc10.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg1nBSt5auwuf0L%5FiXEbqUkwwB5Zi0hM9qCpgKbdIshXRvU%5FYuPa7By%5FVIVO1mmn%5FSy%5FWT9NJjOqz2nv2UEwiNW1KBEf3%2D1YvSnN8wYPDyCMEY1eJxl%5Fqp3NkTZTxTci3oLoyoz7vBILLJDxhbiPBwvAvIq%5Fxu157hyLBBT%2D6bjQM6qAS7eMVXseVq2JOdRtJUFqQEO9SRhXfOfZ1WmoZ4kPv2M3hWbGuo%2D3BL7R2ebW865eufKZFa5uju3d7cOrvy2sxdHwTF9JwainT1rTqV39tuN1uyuQ%2E%2E" rel="nofollow">very first presidential act</a>; that *would* bump up the gravity of the choice to vote for him, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: kurt</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kurt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Given that Pro-Life Catholics have concluded that Obama is a supporter of &#039;objective moral evil on a monstrous scale&#039; certainly exceeding any of this misdeeds of the Spanish Republic, why are we talking about voting at all instead of looking for a new set of four insurgent generals?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that Pro-Life Catholics have concluded that Obama is a supporter of &#8216;objective moral evil on a monstrous scale&#8217; certainly exceeding any of this misdeeds of the Spanish Republic, why are we talking about voting at all instead of looking for a new set of four insurgent generals?</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43155</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nickol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 21:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43155</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am wondering if everyone who voted for the pro-choice presidential candidates Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry allegedly committed mortal sins. Or was culpability less prior to the 2008 campaign before which (to the best of my knowledge) the argument about remote material cooperation with evil was not made or publicized?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am wondering if everyone who voted for the pro-choice presidential candidates Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry allegedly committed mortal sins. Or was culpability less prior to the 2008 campaign before which (to the best of my knowledge) the argument about remote material cooperation with evil was not made or publicized?</p>
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		<title>By: Paladin</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43147</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paladin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Iafrate wrote, in reply to my post:

&lt;i&gt;[Paladin] What, exactly, would be wrong (via Catholic principles) with bishops saying, flat-out: “Do not vote for so-and-so, since he’s an implacable supporter of objective moral evil on a monstrous scale”?

&lt;b&gt;[Mr. Iafrate] I suppose it would be possible to imagine a scenario where the bishops would have to do something like that.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

Do I understand you correctly by assuming this means, &quot;Abortion hasn&#039;t risen to that level of &#039;necessary intervention&#039;, in your opinion&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Iafrate wrote, in reply to my post:</p>
<p><i>[Paladin] What, exactly, would be wrong (via Catholic principles) with bishops saying, flat-out: “Do not vote for so-and-so, since he’s an implacable supporter of objective moral evil on a monstrous scale”?</p>
<p><b>[Mr. Iafrate] I suppose it would be possible to imagine a scenario where the bishops would have to do something like that.</b></i></p>
<p>Do I understand you correctly by assuming this means, &#8220;Abortion hasn&#8217;t risen to that level of &#8216;necessary intervention&#8217;, in your opinion&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Paladin</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43098</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paladin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Whoops!  So it was; I beg your pardons, both...!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops!  So it was; I beg your pardons, both&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43096</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nickol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43096</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;David Nichol wrote:&lt;/i&gt;

Paladin,

Actually, it was Mike McG who wrote.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>David Nichol wrote:</i></p>
<p>Paladin,</p>
<p>Actually, it was Mike McG who wrote.</p>
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		<title>By: Paladin</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43093</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paladin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David Nichol wrote:

&lt;i&gt;Paladin:  Are you assuming such an exhortation would have the desired effect?&lt;/i&gt;

I could hope so, but that wouldn&#039;t be the point; sane morality is not particularly concerned with whether the course of action is &quot;politically [or otherwise] expedient&quot;, or not.

&lt;i&gt;What if such exhortations had the unintended consequence of swinging people in the opposite direction…a not unreasonable possibility given the low esteem…deserved or undeserved…the bishops have both within and apart from the Catholic community.&lt;/i&gt;

That would not affect the morality of the question, in the slightest; by that standard, Our Blessed Lord should never have allowed Himself to be crucified... since some people freely rejected the grace He offered, and damned themselves thereby--some ostensibly because of the &quot;scandal and/or foolishness&quot; of the cross (cf. I Corinthians 1:23).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Nichol wrote:</p>
<p><i>Paladin:  Are you assuming such an exhortation would have the desired effect?</i></p>
<p>I could hope so, but that wouldn&#8217;t be the point; sane morality is not particularly concerned with whether the course of action is &#8220;politically [or otherwise] expedient&#8221;, or not.</p>
<p><i>What if such exhortations had the unintended consequence of swinging people in the opposite direction…a not unreasonable possibility given the low esteem…deserved or undeserved…the bishops have both within and apart from the Catholic community.</i></p>
<p>That would not affect the morality of the question, in the slightest; by that standard, Our Blessed Lord should never have allowed Himself to be crucified&#8230; since some people freely rejected the grace He offered, and damned themselves thereby&#8211;some ostensibly because of the &#8220;scandal and/or foolishness&#8221; of the cross (cf. I Corinthians 1:23).</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Moorehead</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jack Moorehead]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 02:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Yes. Faithful Catholics are morally obligated to be b*tch-boys for the right wing in perpetuity. That message has come through loud and clear.&quot;\

Exactly!  The Left has indeed made that loud and clear.  It sucks, but what can you do?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Yes. Faithful Catholics are morally obligated to be b*tch-boys for the right wing in perpetuity. That message has come through loud and clear.&#8221;\</p>
<p>Exactly!  The Left has indeed made that loud and clear.  It sucks, but what can you do?</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald A. Naus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/11/12/catholic-bishops-challenge-obama-on-unborn/#comment-43057</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gerald A. Naus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 01:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=5025#comment-43057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a bishop for ya. (the article is obviously very biased) http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111303.html

A British Catholic bishop has issued a statement enthusiastically welcoming the man who has been labelled the “most pro-abortion US president in history” – president-elect Barack Obama. Bishop Crispian Hollis of the Portsmouth diocese in southern England has said he is “thrilled” at the election of Obama.

The bishop’s message, posted on the website of the Portsmouth diocese, says, “With millions of others, I have been thrilled by Barack Obama’s victory and I thank God for it. For me, it represents a rare moment of hope and optimism which shows American democracy at its best and it is of seismic significance and potential for the whole global community. And so, more than ever now, he deserves and needs us to keep him in our prayers.”

This ardent welcome from Hollis, known in Britain to be on the extreme left of the Catholic Church, is in sharp contrast to a letter issued yesterday by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, in which they warned Obama that “aggressive pro-abortion policies, legislation and executive orders will permanently alienate tens of millions of Americans, and would be seen by many as an attack on the free exercise of their religion.”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a bishop for ya. (the article is obviously very biased) <a href="http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111303.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/nov/08111303.html</a></p>
<p>A British Catholic bishop has issued a statement enthusiastically welcoming the man who has been labelled the “most pro-abortion US president in history” – president-elect Barack Obama. Bishop Crispian Hollis of the Portsmouth diocese in southern England has said he is “thrilled” at the election of Obama.</p>
<p>The bishop’s message, posted on the website of the Portsmouth diocese, says, “With millions of others, I have been thrilled by Barack Obama’s victory and I thank God for it. For me, it represents a rare moment of hope and optimism which shows American democracy at its best and it is of seismic significance and potential for the whole global community. And so, more than ever now, he deserves and needs us to keep him in our prayers.”</p>
<p>This ardent welcome from Hollis, known in Britain to be on the extreme left of the Catholic Church, is in sharp contrast to a letter issued yesterday by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, in which they warned Obama that “aggressive pro-abortion policies, legislation and executive orders will permanently alienate tens of millions of Americans, and would be seen by many as an attack on the free exercise of their religion.”</p>
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