<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Some Needed Clarity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 26 May 2012 03:15:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: blackadderiv</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-41653</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blackadderiv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-41653</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can I ask where you heard about the &quot;shaved head&quot; comment? Googling the quote turned up no results, and as far as I know Joe the Plumber hasn&#039;t been at any Palin rallies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can I ask where you heard about the &#8220;shaved head&#8221; comment? Googling the quote turned up no results, and as far as I know Joe the Plumber hasn&#8217;t been at any Palin rallies.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: CHILDREN OF ISRAEL</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-41651</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CHILDREN OF ISRAEL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2008 14:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-41651</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a Jew, I was terrified by a comment made by Sarah Palin at a rally in which &quot;Joe the Plumber&quot; was a featured guest.

&quot;With his shaved head, jeans, and steel toed boots, he&#039;s OUR kind of guy right?&quot; said Palin to a resounding cheer from
the overwhelmingly WASP crowd. (At which point I cringed for her husband, Todd who is nothing like Joe the Plumber).

In what country are shaved heads, certain brands of jeans and especially steel toed boots not associated with radical
Neo-Nazi skinheads? And how do you suppose those Neo-Nazi skinheads feel about Jews, African-Americans, Catholics, and  anyone else who does not fit the narrow description of a 
&quot;real&quot; American according to the right wing conservatives?

Wake up Children of Israel!
McCain/Palin is a vote for those who despise us. Remember this: they protect Israel for Christianity, NOT Judaism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Jew, I was terrified by a comment made by Sarah Palin at a rally in which &#8220;Joe the Plumber&#8221; was a featured guest.</p>
<p>&#8220;With his shaved head, jeans, and steel toed boots, he&#8217;s OUR kind of guy right?&#8221; said Palin to a resounding cheer from<br />
the overwhelmingly WASP crowd. (At which point I cringed for her husband, Todd who is nothing like Joe the Plumber).</p>
<p>In what country are shaved heads, certain brands of jeans and especially steel toed boots not associated with radical<br />
Neo-Nazi skinheads? And how do you suppose those Neo-Nazi skinheads feel about Jews, African-Americans, Catholics, and  anyone else who does not fit the narrow description of a<br />
&#8220;real&#8221; American according to the right wing conservatives?</p>
<p>Wake up Children of Israel!<br />
McCain/Palin is a vote for those who despise us. Remember this: they protect Israel for Christianity, NOT Judaism.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Something Messy in Texas &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-40891</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Something Messy in Texas &#171; Vox Nova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 16:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-40891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] there&#8217;s one other thing. As I pointed out recently, a well-formed conscience means taking into account (as Faithful Citizenship notes) a [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] there&#8217;s one other thing. As I pointed out recently, a well-formed conscience means taking into account (as Faithful Citizenship notes) a [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Southern Appeal &#187; Why I love Sarah Palin (redux)</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-40432</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Southern Appeal &#187; Why I love Sarah Palin (redux)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-40432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] life, but who have nothing but contempt for Governor Palin. Of course, these are the same folks who spend an inordinate amount of time making excuses for a man who is the most radically proaborti.... And that tells us all we need to know about their unduly harsh treatment of Governor Palin, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] life, but who have nothing but contempt for Governor Palin. Of course, these are the same folks who spend an inordinate amount of time making excuses for a man who is the most radically proaborti&#8230;. And that tells us all we need to know about their unduly harsh treatment of Governor Palin, [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dominic Riebli</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-40304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dominic Riebli]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-40304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MM wrote:
But given that abortion is deeply rooted in poverty, his economic, social, and health care policies might lead to a diminution in abortion– as happened under the Clinton administration.

Response:
If I understand you correctly, poverty leads to abortion; though I cannot discern from what you’ve written whether you believe in a direct or indirect connection.  (I trust that you’ve covered this connection in other posts.  I just recently started reading your posts.)  I would argue the opposite - that abortion indirectly leads to poverty.

I’ve always read that there exists a strong correlation between the presence of a family unit and an individual’s ability to rise out of poverty.  I submit that the “right” to abortion represents the single biggest contributing factor toward the breakdown of the family unit – because the woman, absent the man, chooses whether to birth or abort, the man feels no obligation toward marriage or fatherhood.  Therefore, abortion, because it impairs the call to a family-oriented life, encourages a society that experiences more poverty, not less.


If we agree on this point, shouldn’t we seek before all else, policies that support and promote the family structure?  Can we truly promote a family culture, and therefore pursue the most effective anit-poverty policy, while viewing abortion as permissible?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MM wrote:<br />
But given that abortion is deeply rooted in poverty, his economic, social, and health care policies might lead to a diminution in abortion– as happened under the Clinton administration.</p>
<p>Response:<br />
If I understand you correctly, poverty leads to abortion; though I cannot discern from what you’ve written whether you believe in a direct or indirect connection.  (I trust that you’ve covered this connection in other posts.  I just recently started reading your posts.)  I would argue the opposite &#8211; that abortion indirectly leads to poverty.</p>
<p>I’ve always read that there exists a strong correlation between the presence of a family unit and an individual’s ability to rise out of poverty.  I submit that the “right” to abortion represents the single biggest contributing factor toward the breakdown of the family unit – because the woman, absent the man, chooses whether to birth or abort, the man feels no obligation toward marriage or fatherhood.  Therefore, abortion, because it impairs the call to a family-oriented life, encourages a society that experiences more poverty, not less.</p>
<p>If we agree on this point, shouldn’t we seek before all else, policies that support and promote the family structure?  Can we truly promote a family culture, and therefore pursue the most effective anit-poverty policy, while viewing abortion as permissible?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: c matt</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-39467</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[c matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 17:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-39467</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t understand - if the clinic provides legitmate healthcare, but not abortion, how would that make them not a legitimate healthcare provider?  Would abortion clinics have to clearly state in their advertising that they provide abortions, and not just the &quot;reproductive services&quot; or &quot;women&#039;s health&quot; euphemisms you often see?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand &#8211; if the clinic provides legitmate healthcare, but not abortion, how would that make them not a legitimate healthcare provider?  Would abortion clinics have to clearly state in their advertising that they provide abortions, and not just the &#8220;reproductive services&#8221; or &#8220;women&#8217;s health&#8221; euphemisms you often see?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: little gal</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-39408</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[little gal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 23:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-39408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Published: September 23, 2008/NY Times
To the Editor:
“Abortion Issue Again Dividing Catholic Votes” (front page, Sept. 17) says the bishops’ statement “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship” would “explicitly allow Catholics to vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights if they do so for other reasons.”
Actually, the bishops said candidates who promote fundamental moral evils such as abortion are cooperating in a grave evil, and Catholics may never vote for them to advance those evils.
A Catholic voter’s decision to support a candidate despite that gravely immoral position “would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil.”
This standard of “grave moral reasons” is a very high standard to meet. The bishops added that “a candidate’s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support.” This is timely in light of offensive comments on race quoted in the article.
What the article calls the “running debate between Catholics” — with some saying “abortion is the only issue” and others saying “you have to look at the whole teaching of the church” — is not a dilemma for the bishops. One must look at the whole teaching of the church on justice and peace, serving the poor and advancing the common good — beginning with a fundamental priority on protecting innocent human life from direct attack as in abortion.
(Bishop) William Murphy
(Bishop) Nicholas DiMarzio
Brooklyn, Sept. 19, 2008.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Published: September 23, 2008/NY Times<br />
To the Editor:<br />
“Abortion Issue Again Dividing Catholic Votes” (front page, Sept. 17) says the bishops’ statement “Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship” would “explicitly allow Catholics to vote for a candidate who supports abortion rights if they do so for other reasons.”<br />
Actually, the bishops said candidates who promote fundamental moral evils such as abortion are cooperating in a grave evil, and Catholics may never vote for them to advance those evils.<br />
A Catholic voter’s decision to support a candidate despite that gravely immoral position “would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental moral evil.”<br />
This standard of “grave moral reasons” is a very high standard to meet. The bishops added that “a candidate’s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support.” This is timely in light of offensive comments on race quoted in the article.<br />
What the article calls the “running debate between Catholics” — with some saying “abortion is the only issue” and others saying “you have to look at the whole teaching of the church” — is not a dilemma for the bishops. One must look at the whole teaching of the church on justice and peace, serving the poor and advancing the common good — beginning with a fundamental priority on protecting innocent human life from direct attack as in abortion.<br />
(Bishop) William Murphy<br />
(Bishop) Nicholas DiMarzio<br />
Brooklyn, Sept. 19, 2008.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Worried about catholic empathy</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-39404</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Worried about catholic empathy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 21:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-39404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The bill would simply prohibit them from &quot;pretending&quot; to be legitimate health care providers.  It would prevent them from using using names similar to legitimate clinics (e.g. &quot;Women&#039;s Resource Center&quot;), prevent them being located near &quot;legitimate&quot; abortion clinics so that patients may accidentally enter the wrong building and it would prevent them describing their services having anything to do with abortions, family planning or women&#039;s health services.

I love to be believe it is just a law against false advertising; however, it feels like the death by a thousand cuts or cooking a lobster by slowly warming the water.  We do not see the bigger implications of the actions of OUR elected officials and judges.  

Apparently in Utah, standing outside an abortion clinic with a baby in one arm and a diaper bag flung over the other, as you peacefully protest and offer leaflets to clinic victims is disorderly conduct.  And that&#039;s now and in utah!  What&#039;s going to happen when FOCA is passed?

If FOCA is passed and abortion is declared to be a &quot;fundamental right,&quot; putting it on the same legal footing as free speech, then one&#039;s fundamental right to free speech will not be protected if one&#039;s free speech is seen as interfering with someone else&#039;s fundamental right to an abortion.  Can we really take the chance that Obama won&#039;t deliver on his promise to NARAL with a democrat led congress??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bill would simply prohibit them from &#8220;pretending&#8221; to be legitimate health care providers.  It would prevent them from using using names similar to legitimate clinics (e.g. &#8220;Women&#8217;s Resource Center&#8221;), prevent them being located near &#8220;legitimate&#8221; abortion clinics so that patients may accidentally enter the wrong building and it would prevent them describing their services having anything to do with abortions, family planning or women&#8217;s health services.</p>
<p>I love to be believe it is just a law against false advertising; however, it feels like the death by a thousand cuts or cooking a lobster by slowly warming the water.  We do not see the bigger implications of the actions of OUR elected officials and judges.  </p>
<p>Apparently in Utah, standing outside an abortion clinic with a baby in one arm and a diaper bag flung over the other, as you peacefully protest and offer leaflets to clinic victims is disorderly conduct.  And that&#8217;s now and in utah!  What&#8217;s going to happen when FOCA is passed?</p>
<p>If FOCA is passed and abortion is declared to be a &#8220;fundamental right,&#8221; putting it on the same legal footing as free speech, then one&#8217;s fundamental right to free speech will not be protected if one&#8217;s free speech is seen as interfering with someone else&#8217;s fundamental right to an abortion.  Can we really take the chance that Obama won&#8217;t deliver on his promise to NARAL with a democrat led congress??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-39396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nickol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-39396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The so-called “Stop Deceptive Advertising for Women’s Services Act” would place burdensome regulations on pregnancy centers.&lt;/i&gt;

Dear Worried,

What are the burdensome regulations? Name one or two.

As far as I can see, if they make clear in their advertising that they do not provide abortions or abortion referrals, they would have nothing to worry about.  It&#039;s just a law against false advertising.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The so-called “Stop Deceptive Advertising for Women’s Services Act” would place burdensome regulations on pregnancy centers.</i></p>
<p>Dear Worried,</p>
<p>What are the burdensome regulations? Name one or two.</p>
<p>As far as I can see, if they make clear in their advertising that they do not provide abortions or abortion referrals, they would have nothing to worry about.  It&#8217;s just a law against false advertising.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Worried about catholic empathy</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-39383</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Worried about catholic empathy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 19:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-39383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s not FOCA people should worry about.  Pregnancy centers across the country that provide women with abortion alternatives could be shut down or face severe regulations if Barack Obama wins next month. While the bill has not yet been voted on in either the House or Senate, abortion advocates, who are expected to see their numbers increase after the elections, could find themselves emboldened by an Obama presidency and push for the bill harder than they have before.

Sen. Robert Menendez of New Jersey reintroduced the bill in April in the Senate and issued a statement alleging that pregnancy centers mislead women by giving them information on abortion&#039;s risks and alternatives. The so-called &quot;Stop Deceptive Advertising for Women’s Services Act&quot; would place burdensome regulations on pregnancy centers.

I don&#039;t think it&#039;s that unlikely a scenario. Pregnancy centers are a huge factor in immediatly, effectively reducing the incidence of abortion in this country. They are, morever, in the eyes of Planned Parenthood and professional abortion providers - &quot;competition&quot; in the reproductive services market.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not FOCA people should worry about.  Pregnancy centers across the country that provide women with abortion alternatives could be shut down or face severe regulations if Barack Obama wins next month. While the bill has not yet been voted on in either the House or Senate, abortion advocates, who are expected to see their numbers increase after the elections, could find themselves emboldened by an Obama presidency and push for the bill harder than they have before.</p>
<p>Sen. Robert Menendez of New Jersey reintroduced the bill in April in the Senate and issued a statement alleging that pregnancy centers mislead women by giving them information on abortion&#8217;s risks and alternatives. The so-called &#8220;Stop Deceptive Advertising for Women’s Services Act&#8221; would place burdensome regulations on pregnancy centers.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s that unlikely a scenario. Pregnancy centers are a huge factor in immediatly, effectively reducing the incidence of abortion in this country. They are, morever, in the eyes of Planned Parenthood and professional abortion providers &#8211; &#8220;competition&#8221; in the reproductive services market.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-39382</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nickol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 19:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-39382</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Knuckle Dragger,

I don&#039;t want to get into the arguments either, but I just want to point out that Obama did &lt;i&gt;not &quot;allow it to happen.&quot; The Born Alive Infant Protection Act did not address the issue of how born-alive infants were to be treated. It simply declared that all born-alive infants were persons under the law. 

In speaking against the law, Obama said that if born-alive infants were being mistreated, they could have compromised on a bill dealing specifically with that. Instead, they chose to promote a bill that said nothing about how born-alive babies were treated. The bill not only said nothing. It apparently &lt;i&gt;did&lt;/i&gt; nothing, since none of Obama&#039;s critics have been able to point to what changed in Illinois since a version of the law did pass in 2005.

I just believe you are misinterpreting Obama&#039;s opposition to BAIPA, but were you to interpret it the same way I do (as an opposition to any encroachment, real or imagined, on abortion rights), you would still find it a good reason to oppose Obama.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Knuckle Dragger,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to get into the arguments either, but I just want to point out that Obama did <i>not &#8220;allow it to happen.&#8221; The Born Alive Infant Protection Act did not address the issue of how born-alive infants were to be treated. It simply declared that all born-alive infants were persons under the law. </p>
<p>In speaking against the law, Obama said that if born-alive infants were being mistreated, they could have compromised on a bill dealing specifically with that. Instead, they chose to promote a bill that said nothing about how born-alive babies were treated. The bill not only said nothing. It apparently </i><i>did</i> nothing, since none of Obama&#8217;s critics have been able to point to what changed in Illinois since a version of the law did pass in 2005.</p>
<p>I just believe you are misinterpreting Obama&#8217;s opposition to BAIPA, but were you to interpret it the same way I do (as an opposition to any encroachment, real or imagined, on abortion rights), you would still find it a good reason to oppose Obama.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Knuckle Dragger</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/10/08/some-needed-clarity/#comment-39377</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Knuckle Dragger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 19:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4484#comment-39377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David,

I&#039;m not going to get into those arguments.  This issue is that Obama voted to allow it to happen and has pledged his support for unrestricted taxpayer-funded abortion.  That tells me all I need to know about him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not going to get into those arguments.  This issue is that Obama voted to allow it to happen and has pledged his support for unrestricted taxpayer-funded abortion.  That tells me all I need to know about him.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

