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	<title>Comments on: Debate Wrap</title>
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	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38609</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 04:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Little Gal, to what spelling errors do you refer?

&lt;i&gt;* I loved McCain’s comment re: Obama not knowing the difference between tactics and strategy!&lt;/i&gt;

The problem, of course, is that McCain was the one who didn&#039;t know the difference.

Anyone who would vote for McCain after that debate is a fool of the first water.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Little Gal, to what spelling errors do you refer?</p>
<p><i>* I loved McCain’s comment re: Obama not knowing the difference between tactics and strategy!</i></p>
<p>The problem, of course, is that McCain was the one who didn&#8217;t know the difference.</p>
<p>Anyone who would vote for McCain after that debate is a fool of the first water.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38510</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Nickol]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[To criticize comments for their spelling is petty. When done only in cases of comments you disagree with, it is a lazy way of saying you disagree with the commenter&#039;s ideas without having to go to the trouble to refute them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To criticize comments for their spelling is petty. When done only in cases of comments you disagree with, it is a lazy way of saying you disagree with the commenter&#8217;s ideas without having to go to the trouble to refute them.</p>
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		<title>By: little gal</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38508</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[little gal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Also, I can tell you, as a sponsor and coach of forensics activities in high schools.&quot;

Is spelling an important part of these activities ?  If so, I hope another teacher is part of the team.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Also, I can tell you, as a sponsor and coach of forensics activities in high schools.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is spelling an important part of these activities ?  If so, I hope another teacher is part of the team.</p>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38495</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[digbydolben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[If these were the Lincoln-Douglas debates, or even the Kennedy-Nixon ones, I&#039;d wholeheartedly agree with you. However, we live in the era of the &quot;sound-byte,&quot; where the questions are so shallow, the format so contrived that the medium HAS become the message.

Also, I can tell you, as a sponsor and coach of forensics activities in high schools that even the National Forensics Association puts far too much weight on &quot;body language&quot; and &quot;expression&quot; (NOT &quot;expressiveness&quot;) and &quot;tone of voice&quot; than it used to--thus vastly dimishing the importance of logic and exposition. This is happening EVERYWHERE in a culture that is becoming far more visual and far less literate.

This is the culture in which McCain and Obama must operate--one in which analysis of gestures, tone, demeanour, etc. are as much of an obsession with the &quot;chattering classes&quot; as are &quot;issues.&quot; Beyond that, I would suggest that you read a little of the literary characterisations by the great late-19th and early 20th century novelists, such as Henry James or Marcel Proust. They, too, put a great deal of effort into analysing the grimaces, gestures, &quot;demeanors&quot; and vocal intonations of their characters, in order to depict those charaters&#039; values, fears, attitudes, etc.

However, I agree with you that it&#039;s a grave pity for America that the CONTENT of these debates aren&#039;t being analysed by the &quot;chattering class&quot; dispassionately and objectively. If they WERE doing that, both Obama and McCain would be FORCED to adhere to an exposition of policies.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If these were the Lincoln-Douglas debates, or even the Kennedy-Nixon ones, I&#8217;d wholeheartedly agree with you. However, we live in the era of the &#8220;sound-byte,&#8221; where the questions are so shallow, the format so contrived that the medium HAS become the message.</p>
<p>Also, I can tell you, as a sponsor and coach of forensics activities in high schools that even the National Forensics Association puts far too much weight on &#8220;body language&#8221; and &#8220;expression&#8221; (NOT &#8220;expressiveness&#8221;) and &#8220;tone of voice&#8221; than it used to&#8211;thus vastly dimishing the importance of logic and exposition. This is happening EVERYWHERE in a culture that is becoming far more visual and far less literate.</p>
<p>This is the culture in which McCain and Obama must operate&#8211;one in which analysis of gestures, tone, demeanour, etc. are as much of an obsession with the &#8220;chattering classes&#8221; as are &#8220;issues.&#8221; Beyond that, I would suggest that you read a little of the literary characterisations by the great late-19th and early 20th century novelists, such as Henry James or Marcel Proust. They, too, put a great deal of effort into analysing the grimaces, gestures, &#8220;demeanors&#8221; and vocal intonations of their characters, in order to depict those charaters&#8217; values, fears, attitudes, etc.</p>
<p>However, I agree with you that it&#8217;s a grave pity for America that the CONTENT of these debates aren&#8217;t being analysed by the &#8220;chattering class&#8221; dispassionately and objectively. If they WERE doing that, both Obama and McCain would be FORCED to adhere to an exposition of policies.</p>
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		<title>By: S.B.</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38434</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[S.B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 01:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38434</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Demeanor, tone, style . . . . As Tom Smith says: &lt;blockquote&gt;http://rightcoast.typepad.com/rightcoast/2008/09/the-debate-was.html

What&#039;s stupid is that so much should depend on the beauty, poise and speaking contest of two men in such an utterly artificial situation. At any number of points it would have been perfectly understandable for McCain to say, &quot;It&#039;s Senator McCain to you, and stop acting like a moron.&quot; Yet that would have lost the election for him. People are actually debating now such questions as, did McCain look too old? Obama too sneering? Did he sound too professorial? Did McCain smile too much as Obama was talking? These debates make questions like these highly important, when they should matter not at all.

* * * The choice is pretty clear. Reasonable minds can and do differ, but if they differ reasonably, they aren&#039;t differing on the basis of what somebody looks like, whether he smiles or smirks, whether he&#039;s tall enough or other irrelevant characteristics. People who are watching to see who looks better in a red tie should do the country a favor and spend the day at the beach instead of voting.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Demeanor, tone, style . . . . As Tom Smith says:<br />
<blockquote><a href="http://rightcoast.typepad.com/rightcoast/2008/09/the-debate-was.html" rel="nofollow">http://rightcoast.typepad.com/rightcoast/2008/09/the-debate-was.html</a></p>
<p>What&#8217;s stupid is that so much should depend on the beauty, poise and speaking contest of two men in such an utterly artificial situation. At any number of points it would have been perfectly understandable for McCain to say, &#8220;It&#8217;s Senator McCain to you, and stop acting like a moron.&#8221; Yet that would have lost the election for him. People are actually debating now such questions as, did McCain look too old? Obama too sneering? Did he sound too professorial? Did McCain smile too much as Obama was talking? These debates make questions like these highly important, when they should matter not at all.</p>
<p>* * * The choice is pretty clear. Reasonable minds can and do differ, but if they differ reasonably, they aren&#8217;t differing on the basis of what somebody looks like, whether he smiles or smirks, whether he&#8217;s tall enough or other irrelevant characteristics. People who are watching to see who looks better in a red tie should do the country a favor and spend the day at the beach instead of voting.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 23:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;Obama wants to have troops in Iraq nearly as long as John McCain wants to. &lt;/I&gt;

I didn&#039;t hear Obama say anything about 100 years. Did you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Obama wants to have troops in Iraq nearly as long as John McCain wants to. </i></p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t hear Obama say anything about 100 years. Did you?</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Nickelsen</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38419</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin Nickelsen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 21:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that Morning&#039;s Minion may be right... 

If interpreted in that light, what of Obama&#039;s demeanor towards McCain?

jn]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Morning&#8217;s Minion may be right&#8230; </p>
<p>If interpreted in that light, what of Obama&#8217;s demeanor towards McCain?</p>
<p>jn</p>
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		<title>By: Morning's Minion</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38413</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morning's Minion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 20:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In terms of tone, the big news was not the use of first names but that the grumpy senior citizen was so filled with contempt for the younger man that he couldn&#039;t even look at him once.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In terms of tone, the big news was not the use of first names but that the grumpy senior citizen was so filled with contempt for the younger man that he couldn&#8217;t even look at him once.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38411</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 20:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38411</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael,

&lt;i&gt;&quot;to say that there is “little difference” between the two remains an absurd claim. Obama is clear where he stands on the Iraq War. He is ambiguous when he talks about future “threats.” McCain is unambiguous about both.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Obama wants to have troops in Iraq nearly as long as John McCain wants to.  Obama thinks the war should be waged principally in Afghanistan.  This is hardly what can be called a substantive difference, or a difference in perspective.  Because of this, mine is not an &quot;absurd claim&quot;.  I&#039;m also not sure why you would take Obama&#039;s ambiguity as a sign that he is less prone to the use of coercive force.  Ambiguity is a good cover for any course of action, including a war-centric one.  And it also leaves him open to do whatever he wants.  

&lt;i&gt;Exactly. I tend to think last night was more of a show.&lt;/i&gt;

Do you approve, then, of his dissembling?  I&#039;m sure you don&#039;t, but why don&#039;t you blame him for it?  Or maybe you do?

If you&#039;re anything like me, you&#039;d want a total repudiation of &quot;nation-building&quot; mindset. More generally, I&#039;d like the candidates to reject the foreign policy of global amelioration.  McCain and Obama both share this understanding of foreign policy, and it is awful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p><i>&#8220;to say that there is “little difference” between the two remains an absurd claim. Obama is clear where he stands on the Iraq War. He is ambiguous when he talks about future “threats.” McCain is unambiguous about both.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Obama wants to have troops in Iraq nearly as long as John McCain wants to.  Obama thinks the war should be waged principally in Afghanistan.  This is hardly what can be called a substantive difference, or a difference in perspective.  Because of this, mine is not an &#8220;absurd claim&#8221;.  I&#8217;m also not sure why you would take Obama&#8217;s ambiguity as a sign that he is less prone to the use of coercive force.  Ambiguity is a good cover for any course of action, including a war-centric one.  And it also leaves him open to do whatever he wants.  </p>
<p><i>Exactly. I tend to think last night was more of a show.</i></p>
<p>Do you approve, then, of his dissembling?  I&#8217;m sure you don&#8217;t, but why don&#8217;t you blame him for it?  Or maybe you do?</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re anything like me, you&#8217;d want a total repudiation of &#8220;nation-building&#8221; mindset. More generally, I&#8217;d like the candidates to reject the foreign policy of global amelioration.  McCain and Obama both share this understanding of foreign policy, and it is awful.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38405</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Were those commenter who had previously expressed concern over Mr. McCains perceived stance on torture mollified by his strong denunciation of torture during the debates?  His stating that water-boarding was torture?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were those commenter who had previously expressed concern over Mr. McCains perceived stance on torture mollified by his strong denunciation of torture during the debates?  His stating that water-boarding was torture?</p>
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		<title>By: little gal</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38398</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[little gal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38398</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just posted another comment that hasn&#039;t appeared...is this in the spam filter again?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just posted another comment that hasn&#8217;t appeared&#8230;is this in the spam filter again?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: little gal</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/09/26/debate-wrap/#comment-38394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[little gal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 18:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=4287#comment-38394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Digby:

The eye contact tactics were part of  each candidates overall strategy.  Here is an article  re: debating*:

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_590226.

* I loved McCain&#039;s comment re:  Obama not knowing the difference between tactics and strategy!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Digby:</p>
<p>The eye contact tactics were part of  each candidates overall strategy.  Here is an article  re: debating*:</p>
<p><a href="http://pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_590226" rel="nofollow">http://pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_590226</a>.</p>
<p>* I loved McCain&#8217;s comment re:  Obama not knowing the difference between tactics and strategy!</p>
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