He’s a better man than I
September 3, 2008
Sen. Joe Biden said today that Gov. Sarah Palin “warrants respect,” and that is just what he’s going to give her when they debate. As a brother in Christ to the Catholic Biden, I appreciate his admonition. I’ve been unnecessarily harsh on Palin the last few days, allowing my subjective states to eclipse her objective record in my thinking. Thank you, Sen. Biden, for setting an example.
So far, Sen. Obama and Sen. Biden have shown quite a bit of class with respect to Palin’s selection.
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Yeah, Biden has shown “class” if you don’t mind his comment about her looks. When he commented on Obama’s looks, that was bad, even “racist”, but he was “classy” when the first thing he remarked upon about Palin was that he approved of her looks.
Who was driving the vile rumors about Palin? Acknowledged hardcore Obama/Biden supporters. Not denouncing them by name and separating from them is not “classy”.
Obama and Biden have both been classy about Palin’s family circumstances. It is not as if they could restrain their supporters. One could say, cynically, that being classy is the right decision politically as well as morally here. Nevertheless, denying that they have been classy is ungenerous. It was also classy of Poli to say that he has been too harsh on Palin (I agree with him); but it is often harder to admit a mistake than to be right in the first place, which makes it admirable.
Yeah, Biden has shown “class” if you don’t mind his comment about her looks. When he commented on Obama’s looks, that was bad,
Biden’s saying that he is not good looking and that Palin is good looking stems from a lack of class?
As Archie Bunker might have said, “Would you have felt better if he called her ugly?”
Interesting how you make a plug for the Democrat ticket even out of an apology.
Interesting how you make a plug for the Democrat ticket even out of an apology.
It’s more of a plug for decency, which is a bit more substantial than a “ticket.”
As a lifelong socialist, not to sound cynical but I do hope Obama and Biden are sincere, and I do give them both the benefit of the doubt.
However, by attacking Palin, I think they (the media) are only going to energize the Republican base (who weren’t particularly keen on McCain anyway) and will make we on the Left look bad for picking on a girl. Besides, the people who eat this stuff up probably aren’t going to vote for McCain anyway.
Just a thought, but being “above the fray” is better politically. Actually, they all should just ignore her…It’s the smart move.
Well, aside from a few gross misrepresentations of Obama’s tax policy, Palin delivered quite a punch this evening. Consider the GOP a real force for the next two months.
Wow, MZ. I think most people in job interview type situations (that’s what a campaign is)prefer being taken seriously as people. Typical self-referential shallow take on things by Biden. Not “classy”.
* Sarah Palin used to wrestle kodiak bears in Alaskan bare knuckles fight clubs.
* Sarah Palin once bagged a caribou by staring it down until it died.
* Sarah Palin turned down a job as skipper of a Deadliest Catch boat because it wasn’t challenging
enough
* Sarah Palin fishes salmon by convincing them it’s in their interest to jump into the boat.
* Sarah Palin once guided Santa’s sleigh through an Alaskan blizzard with the light from her smile.
* Little known fact: without her glasses, looking deep into Sarah Palin’s eyes will blind you with the
beauty of the tundra sun.
* Chuck Norris wishes he was Sarah Palin trapped in a man’s body.
* Sarah Palin paid her way through school by hunting for yeti pelts with a slingshot.
* Sarah Palin knows the location of DB Cooper’s body because she threw him from the plane.
* Global Warming doesn’t kill polar bears. Sarah Palin does – usually with her bare hands.
* Three of Sarah Palin’s five kids came out sideways – she never flinched.
* If placed into Schroedinger’s experiment, both Sarah Palins remain alive.
I loved the speed tonight. I can’t wait to see the online donations report from the McCain camp after that . . . . The whole night was great. I could have done less with every one of the speakers mentioning his refusal of early release. It can wear thin. I do think it’s an important part of his history, but come on. Rudy was the attack dog from my neighbor’s back yard tonight. Just think about it. How many more millions of American tuned into the prime time event to watch Palin, got to see Rudy rip into Obama – and then see a spectacular performance by Palin . . . all because the left has spilled so much ink and vile about her over the last few days. Thank you, thank you, thank you – to all who participated in drumming up support. You got the seats in the seats in front of their televisions, and I couldn’t be happier.
“speed’ is ‘speech’ of course, and forgive any other errors. i’m pumped.
Sarah Palin owns every one of the latte sippers & Sitzpinkler. I am not in complete sync with her by any means, but she’s refreshing. Not some leftist stooge who thinks he knows best what to do with our money. I am driven not by my love of the GOP but for my loathing of the Democrat Party.
Culture War, Round II.
Rural vs. Urban America.
If you don’t have the issues or the candidates, then create another fight.
Gov. Palin:
“Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown,” Ms. Palin told the ecstatic delegates in a speech that eviscerated Mr. Obama. “And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves. I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a ‘community organizer,’ except that you have actual responsibilities.”
As the crowd cheered its approval, Ms. Palin went on: “I might add that in small towns we don’t quite know what to make of a candidate who lavishes praise on working people when they are listening, and then talks about how bitterly they cling to their religion and guns when those people aren’t listening.”
—-
Palin’s twice the man Obama is :P Obama’s the televangelist for the liberal soul, he sure does it well, making the limo libs swoon. Just what we need, a metrosexual with a messiah complex. Give me Calamity Jane any day.
Mark, you are exactly right.
For the record, Sen. Orin Hatch made a comment about Palin’s looks too. It is a stupid old man thing on both sides. Equally patronizing.
If I remember correctly, Biden and Obama made respectful comments about McCain, yet tried to articulate where they differ (and tied McCain ad nauseum to Bush).
Palin on the other hand was grossly dismissive of Obama. Trite remarks about the styrofoam pillars cheapen her credibility. It might energize an always angry base, but for independents like me, it is a turn off. I think she showed real capability in delivering a big time message. I just wish her message was less filled with acid.
Then there is the outright lying…or stupidity. Palin hammered Obama–and tried to strike fear into every American heart–by saying he’s going to raise taxes and grow government. Now correct me if I am wrong, but did he not say his tax increases would not impact 95% of middle income households? Even more, hasn’t our government grown more bloated under GWB and a republican dominated White House and Congress, despite their so-called “smaller government” message? Why should we trust them this time?
Then there are stupid convention phrases, like the hyper-American love fest initiated by some congresswomen from Minnesota, when she made the dumbest remark that “as Americans we are hardwired for compassion.” I mean, seriously, can’t we call this nationalism what it is? Idolatry. What does the rest of the world, let along Catholics, think about this narrative? The DNC was chalk-full of this nonsense too.
Before some pro-McCain poster flies off the handle, I’ve never voted for a democrat for major office in my life, fyi.
At what point has Barak Obama “looked down” on Gov. Palin’s small town experience? I would like a quote please. If there isn’t one, then she fabricated an offense from her “opponent.”
Tizzi,
I couldnt’ agree more.
Sarah Palin is certainly what the sexist commentators hate. A strong woman, with values, grit, and experience. All of which her opponents lack as well as her detractors.
THIS is a “Catholic Christian” website? I think I had better re-consider my definition of the Roman Catholic Church in America as the “Republican Party on its knees.” “Conservative” Catholicism in America now seems to me to be so full of hatred for its philosophical opponents that it may well be morphing into some sort of fascist party in America.
If I were a serious Catholic intellectual in your country, I think I’d be calling for the development of a “Catholic Christian Democratic Party,” or something like it, just so that REAL Catholicism, and real Catholic “seamless life” positions could be energetically protected both from the Right wing-nuts of the sort who write here, AND from the “neo-pagan” left-wingers.
Anybody who can support the hate-filled Republican Party, personified in the anti-urban crusader Palin, just in order to “protect” America from the well-reasoned, even-tempered Obama-Biden positions on important things OTHER than abortion–say, nuclear arms proliferation or their position on “alternative energy sources”–has to be OFF HIS ROCKER!
I just made a similar point digby, but that post is “awaiting moderation” I think because I used the word “stupid” too many times. 8′p But you have much more gusto.
I’m with you Digby. But now I have two posts “awaiting moderation” trying to make a similar point.
Policraticus: I think you’re being way too hard on yourself. You’re a much better man than Joe Biden. And so is Sarah Palin.
Culture War, Round II.
Rural vs. Urban America.
I dunno. I saw more Obama signs and stickers in West Virginia last week than I did McCain signs. I think more folks than you’d expect in rural america won’t fall for the McCain-Palin bullsh*t.
Belittling community service is such a “manly” virtue, is it not? As is fear-mongering…
Aw, the community organizers are feeling put upon.
Sarah Palin could have read the St Paul White Pages last night and it would have been declared a monumental effort by the audience for which it was intended. She, like Biden, is beside the point. It’s inherent in the nature of the office. A party that is more energized by its VP nominee than its presidential nominee is not in a healthy way. Because it means you’re spending more effort on energizing your base rather than reaching those who remain to be persuaded from the middle.
Reminds me of Estes Kefauver in 1956.
I am suspecting that Obama and the Clintons spent much of July and August confecting a Potemkin village of seeming discord to lull the GOP into this trap. The GOP convention looks like a party having a nervous breakdown without being aware of it.
Brett asked where Obama has looked down on Palin’s small town experience. I believe it was on CNN when he dismissed her experience governing a small town with 7000 people called “Wasilly”. I don’t have the link but will try to provide it today. I read somewhere that he has referred to Wasilla as Wasilly on more than just that occasion. He also compared his campaigns employee count and budget to Wasilla’s completely ignoring that she is the sitting governor of Alaska with it’s workforce and budget.
I know this post is not about the convention and maybe there will be one later. But my thoughts.
Romney was awful! Plain awful.
One point. The 1980 Olympic Hockey contest is over. Cut it with the “USA! USA!”.
Huckabee was pretty good.
The governor of Hawaii Linda Lingle was very good.
Giuliani was pretty good.
Palin gave a great speech. Katerina asks in the post above why no mention of abortion. Well since she didn’t want an answer up there I’ll put one here.
First actions speak louder than words. Anyone who reads this blog knows Palin’s position on abortion. Her son Trig is a testament to that position.
Which brings me to my second point. I don’t see how she could mention abortion apart from her son. And if she did that she would surely have been accused of exploiting little Trig for political purposes. And I’m sure there is more than one person on this blog that would join in that chorus. We have already seen the “she’s such a bad mom” line pushed by the Democrats, the media, and around here.
digbydolben,
THIS is a “Catholic Christian” website? I think I had better re-consider my definition of the Roman Catholic Church in America as the “Republican Party on its knees.” “Conservative” Catholicism in America now seems to me to be so full of hatred for its philosophical opponents that it may well be morphing into some sort of fascist party in America.
Is this a distraction attempt? You must not read this blog very much. There are more liberal contributors who are on the fringe of Catholic teaching on this blog than those that you describe.
If I were a serious Catholic intellectual in your country, I think I’d be calling for the development of a “Catholic Christian Democratic Party,” or something like it, just so that REAL Catholicism, and real Catholic “seamless life” positions could be energetically protected both from the Right wing-nuts of the sort who write here, AND from the “neo-pagan” left-wingers.
Ok. So you aren’t American yourself? Riiiiigggghhhhtttt. And Morning’s Minion is Irish. Got it.
Anybody who can support the hate-filled Republican Party, personified in the anti-urban crusader Palin, just in order to “protect” America from the well-reasoned, even-tempered Obama-Biden positions on important things OTHER than abortion–say, nuclear arms proliferation or their position on “alternative energy sources”–has to be OFF HIS ROCKER!
Most of the contributors here agree with you. You’ll feel right at home here.
Several of the speakers last night including Palin spoke in favor of alternative energy sources. So digbydolben either didn’t watch the convention or is off HIS rocker.
Can someone tell me what was so “great” about Ms. Palin’s “speech”, from a Catholic perspective? Other than the fact that she brought Trig with her?
I think she went a long way in deflecting most of the mud slung her way by people in the media like you Mark. Not to say that you are in the media, only that you sling mud. It was a political speech not a theological dissertation.
To Tim F.: Thanks for addressing my question. It was offered in all seriousness. I’d like to see a link if it is forthcoming.
To Joseph: my own family of brothers, sisters, and in-laws is quite international. We have Belizians, Swiss, Mexican. Some are Catholic. We are a family of white Americans, African-Americans, and Mexican-Americans. Some are Catholic. What this diverse gathering of folks has discussed together is why American Catholics by and large, seem to be sold out to the Right. The proposed solution was not selling out to the Left, but offering a more critical Catholicism that rejected idolatrous forms of American exceptionalism so evident in each major party. So please, even if Digby were American (but really, do you want to be that cynical? It will be the death of you), the issue he raises about non-American Catholics looking in on American public political discussions is a quite real thing in my life. And I’ve seen how staunch Americanism can drive a wedge within Catholicism. What a scandal that should be! If I read digby correctly, he was writing against Right wing nuts and neo-pagan Left. That’s a good thing in my book.
So please, even if Digby were American (but really, do you want to be that cynical? It will be the death of you), the issue he raises about non-American Catholics looking in on American public political discussions is a quite real thing in my life.
Digby is typing in Americanglish. Digby is not “international”. That has nothing to do with your own family. I have an internation family as well, though they are not as diverse as yours. Not a single one of them would be able to articulate what Digby did, even though they speak fluent English and are not that far removed from American culture (they are Irish). It is very obvious.
Here you go Brett.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/obama-defends-natural-disaster-experience/
I think the Wasilly reference is about 5 minutes into the video.
TimF,
Agree absolutely. The brief shot of Palin’s youngest daughter holding Trig and caressing his forehead is as pro-life as any words could have been.
Katerina,
You ask a question, you should be willing to get an answer.
Here you go Brett. I sent it but it didn’t go through maybe because there was more than one link. I’ll put the youtube link in another comment.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/01/obama-defends-natural-disaster-experience/
One point. The 1980 Olympic Hockey contest is over. Cut it with the “USA! USA!”.
Hahahaha… I didn’t get to see Romney.
Katerina,
You ask a question, you should be willing to get an answer.
I’m too busy to be moderating comments.
Michael Iafrate is in Canada, digbydolben is back in Europe. Now, who’ll spring for a ticket to send Morning’s Minion back to Ireland ? I’d always thought the Irish were a fun people…then again, maybe that’s why they shipped him here. If I hated everything about America (Calvinists! Imperialists! Dualists! and so forth) I’d move back to Europe. America-hating American libs are bad enough, but to have someone move here and complain about his host country is just plain annoying.
America is a country of free enterprise. It is a country of individual freedoms. It is a capitalist country. It is not a Catholic country. Yes, there are Protestants here !gasp! That’ll never change. Don’t like it ? Move somewhere else. The patronizing nanny state with enterprise-thwarting regulations is why I left Austria. The lefties here would just LOVE it. Europe needs more people. Whiny egghead lefties might be ‘accorded the proper respect” even.
That’s fine, I’m too busy to read posts that don’t allow comments. Followed TimF’s excellent response.
Gerald, that is one of the most stunningly thoughtless comments I’ve seen you make. “Move somewhere else.” Har. You’re backsliding.
Take MM – all he does is whine and moan about the USA. No one forced him to move here. He is obviously a masochist. Then again, self-flagellation is a Catholic tradition.
Gerald stop the chauvinism.
Tim F.
“I think she went a long way in deflecting most of the mud slung her way by people in the media like you Mark.”
Every claim I made about Sarah factually stands.
Behind her own “cloud of rhetoric” about reform (mostly of only BIG spending), there is her minuscule record to examine. From what I see, it does not quite match up with her lofty words. Hiring a lobbyist to bring in $27 million of Washington monies for a town less than 10000, after leaving the mayor’s office, heading a Stevens’ PAC; campaigning for governor as being explicitly for the “bridge to nowhere”.
But she has been put on the ticket not only to have “reform” replace the “change” mantra, but, more connivingly, to ignite another culture war.
I surmise you were taken in by her rhetoric that she has always been proud to be an American. Why did she say that? Doubts about some political spouse? Can you imagine what would happen to Michelle Obama if it was found out that just six years ago she was a member of a political party for a vote separation the US?
Gerald,
There are thousands of rightwing comedians and shock jockeys out of work and you are here offering freely such amateur humor.
Be generous to those who are out of a livelihood. ;-p
Brett: You understood me perfectly. Thank you.
Joseph: I hold dual American-EU citizenship, because of immediate family ancestry. I plan to vote for Obama by absentee ballot in New Mexico. However, it may be the last time I ever vote in an American election.
Michael, I am a foreign-born nativist ! Btw, I would say the same thing to someone who immigrates to Austria and then complains about Austrians being, uh, Austrian. It’s like the Peanuts strip where Lucy says to Charlie Brown, “Why can’t you be a pony ?”
To me, politics is like Red Sox vs. Yankees. Well, not quite, I love my Sox and hate the Yankees. I don’t love the GOP, but I hate the Democrat Party’s “elite”. In brief, the Right may institute school prayer, but the Left will freakin’ bus your children.
That’s fine, I’m too busy to read posts that don’t allow comments.
So why read books? :)
digbydolben,
Where were you born? New Mexico? Then you aren’t European, sorry to rain on your “coolness” parade.
Because a book is a book, not a post. ;)
I was born in upper Manhattan to an American citizen and a British subject, spent my childhood in the American South, spent half of my life in Europe and in South Asia.
I am as much “European” as I am anything else.
And being from nowhere isn’t exactly “cool,” in my book.
Because a book is a book, not a post. ;)
I just think that we caught more in the comments at times than what the original poster wanted to say.
Very often so. I can understand and even relate to that given how some comments on posts I’ve made have been received. Still, I like the back and forth of discussion on posts and typically won’t read one if comments aren’t allowed.
Biden, the “classy” gent, has been caught telling lies about the auto accident that killed his wife. On numerous occasins, he has said the truck driver was drunk. This is completely false. Police reports from the time show she had a stop sign and the truck driver had the right of way, wasn’t drinking or speeding and there was no problem with his brakes. Now the trucker’s children are objecting to these senseless lies. Why does he tell lies?
http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008809040379
Digby,
And being from nowhere isn’t exactly “cool,” in my book.
I hope I didn’t upset you. That was a pleasant response to my obvious sarcasm. Your last sentence struck me and I can empathize with you. At least we’ve got something in common. I need to stop visiting this blog, it really brings out the devil in me. I only intend to be spiteful because the contributors on this blog are with everybody else. On occasion, it seems my shotgun pellets strike innocent people. Sincerely, thanks a mil for your dignified response.
Biden, the “classy” gent, has been caught telling lies about the auto accident that killed his wife. On numerous occasins, he has said the truck driver was drunk.
Matt,
If you put your mind to it, I bet you could think of a charitable explanation, but of course what politics is about is doing your best to destroy the character of your opponent.
First, following your links and others, I can only find charges that he mentioned drunk driving twice. Here’s one: “A tractor-trailer, a guy who allegedly — and I never pursued it — drank his lunch instead of eating his lunch, broadsided my family and killed my wife instantly.” First of all, it is not an assertion of fact. Second, is it possible somebody might have mentioned alcohol being a factor at the time, even if that’s not what’s in the news stories? And isn’t it possible that someone whose wife was killed in a terrible accident years ago might tend, in his own mind, to come up with a reason that made things a little more comprehensible?
This is the kind of thing that people who don’t hate Biden would read about and shrug. Two dubious statements over the course of 30 years regarding a highly emotional incident that killed his wife. Who knows what’s in his head? On the other hand, people who hate Biden, as you seem to, produce this as proof positive that he’s a brazen liar, and conclude that if he will lie about the death of his wife, he’ll lie about anything.
I don’t ever remember such cynicism and hatred being expressed in debates about a presidential election. And this is a Catholic blog!
There were no rumors about alcohol being involved. None whatsoever. Until the last year or so!Moreover, Biden suggested the truck driver ran a stop sign in an interview last year on C-Span.
From the news article:
“The rumor about alcohol being involved by either party, especially the truck driver, is incorrect,” said Jerome O. Herlihy, a Delaware Superior Court judge who was chief deputy attorney general and worked with crash investigators in 1972.
“If it were some part of a cause of the accident, there would have been a charge, simply because if you’re driving under the influence and kill someone in the process — whether it’s the wife of a U.S. senator or anybody else — there’s going to be a charge,” he said.
Herlihy said investigators discussed several possible causes for the crash, including that Biden’s first wife, Neilia, turned her head and didn’t see the oncoming truck as she exited the intersection of Limestone and Valley roads on Dec. 18, 1972.
Matt,
I am not disputing what actually happened. I am saying you are trying to put the most uncharitable interpretation on two remarks in 30 years, one of them not really even an assertion, as you possibly can.
There are two that the article references, and another one on C-Span (transcript available.) That’s 3 times in the last few years, saying something 100% opposite of the facts that also embellishes the aura he weaves about himself in dozens of areas…that he was “working class” (not so), the Kinnock thing, the top of his class in law school (very much not so), the plaigerism in college (which he now downgrades but was pages & pages), the lobbyist/hedge fund thing etc., etc.
If he were a Republican or an evangelical pro-lifer, it would interest reporters that he so consistently just doesn’t tell the truth. He is running to be “a heartbeat away” after all.
Apology accepted, Joseph.
It doesn’t do ME any good to be here, either. My actual positions on most of these issues are far more “nuanced” than most here have any patience for.
The problems are complex, and the only feasible solutions for them are, as well. However, it seems that American Catholics have lost patience with cooperation with others to solve complex problems.
I’ll repeat: the only possible real alternative for all this division is the formation of a genuinely Catholic political PARTY that would be willing to work in the interest of finding a middle way, in charity and respect for those who disagree with genuine Catholic scholarship and tradition (rather than the reduction of it to sound bytes).