Legalized Depravity: Obama and McCain thinking evil
Ruchira Paul reflects astutely on the answers given by Senators Obama and McCain on the curiously political question of evil (Hat tip: Leiter Reports):
During the interview, (watch the video here or read the transcript here) Warren asked both candidates the following question:
Does evil exist and if it does, do we ignore it, do we negotiate with it, do we contain it or do we defeat it?
Obama gave the following nuanced answer:
Evil does exist. I mean, we see evil all the time. We see evil in Darfur. We see evil sadly on the streets of our cities. We see evil in parents who have viciously abused their children and I think it has to be confronted. It has to be confronted squarely and one of the things that I strongly believe is that, you know, we are not going to, as individuals, be able to erase evil from the world. That is God’s task. But we can be soldiers in that process and we can confront it when we see it. Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for us to have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil. But you know a lot of evil has been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.
Here is McCain’s response to the same question:
Defeat it. .. If I’m president of the United States, my friends, if I have to follow him to the gates of hell, I will get Osama Bin Laden and bring him to justice. I will do that and I know how to do that. I will get that done. No one should be allowed to take thousands fo American — innocent American lives. Of course evil must be defeated. My friends, we are facing the transcendent challenge of the 21st century, radical Islamic extremists. Not long ago in Baghdad, Al Qaeda took two young women who were mentally disabled and put suicide vests on them, sent them into a marketplace and by remote control, detonated those suicide vests. If that isn’t evil, you have to tell me what is and we’re going to defeat this evil, and the central battle ground according to David Petraeus is in Baghdad, Mosul and Iraq. And we are winning and we are succeeding and our troops will come home with honor and victory and not in defeat and that’s what’s happening. We have – and we face this threat throughout the world. It’s not just in Iraq. It’s not just in Afghanistan. Our intelligence people tell us Al Qaeda continues to try to establish cells here in the United States of America. My friends, we must face this challenge. We can face this challenge and we must totally defeat it and we’re in a long struggle. But when I’m around the young men and women who are serving this nation in uniform, I have no doubt .. none.
How’s that for a contrast in world views? I always worry when McCain begins a sentence with the words “My friends.” They are usually followed by a statement that is either false or dangerous. While Obama recognizes evil outside the borders of the United States, he also acknowledges that our nation is not guilt – free. McCain on the other hand sees evil only outside the US – inside Iraq in particular. He makes no mention of our overcrowded prison system, social inequities, illegal torture of enemy combatants. He expresses no worry about sexism, racism, homophobia within our own society. McCain the Valiant is focused on only one evil – Al Qaeda. And he is going to fight it in Iraq, the unnecessary immoral war he is determined to “win.”
Our upcoming presidential election ought to be about more than just the economy and jobs. It should also be about how we see ourselves as citizens of the world. Obama, despite his youth and inexperience, recognizes that vital aspect of leadership. McCain, on the other hand, appears to believe that following in the errant and belligerent footsteps of Bush-Cheney is the only way to lead America and “defeat” evil.
While I hesitate to say, philosophically, that evil “exists,” there is no question that Obama has the more realistic and compelling view on the topic, even though he likely would not view other moral problems such as abortion as “evil.” Nevertheless, he locates evil in actions and recognizes that evil cannot be defeated by human agency. McCain, on the other hand, clumsily reduces the “existence” of evil to a person (Osama Bin Laden) and to groups of people (al-Quaeda and “radical Islamic extremists”). This implies for McCain that evil can be defeated by human agency through the elimination of these people, presumably by means of violence. Such is quite a naive and depersonalized view of the world from the Catholic perspective, but it certainly appeals to those whose public policies hinge strictly upon utilitarianism.
I always like to ask, What does St. Thomas think? Well, here he is on whether evil is a thing or person:
…we must consider that good properly speaking is something inasmuch as it is desirable, for according to the Philosopher, they have best defined good who say that good is that which all things desire. But that which is opposed to good is called evil; hence evil must be that which is opposed to the desirable as such. But it is impossible for this to be something. . . . (De Malo, Q I.1)
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Obama gave the better answer. One could argue that McCain’s response was in some way a denial of original sin, although I doubt either candidate would have much to say about theology.
Mr. McCain sounds like a raving lunatic, pure and simple.
And if he “knows how to get ‘em”. why hasn’t he done so or helped in doing so?
Bonum est quod omnia appetunt– one of my favorite quotes!
Sadly, McCain gave the American derivative Calvinist answer, where he neatly divides the world in dualistc fashion, and sees the US as the forces of light. While such American exceptionalism is also evidentv in Obama’s rhetoric, we do not see these Manichean echoes of light and darkness. This is the principal reason why I believe McCain is the worse choice.
Very very interesting post! I laughed as I read McCain’s response, due to its narrow-mindedness and ‘we gonna git Osama and all members of his axis of evil’ Bush-like fervor. It’s interesting how he portrays all evil as being outside the US, pointing the finger at other countries instead of looking first at his own.
It reminds me of a time when I asked a friend why she always noticeably curled the end of her finger when she was pointing at someone during a discussion. She responded that every time we point at someone, we have three fingers pointing back at ourselves, which should remind us to look at ourselves three times as long + hard as we look at our neighbor. She wanted to be reminded to look at herself four times before ever trying to ‘pick the log’ from her neighbor’s eye, so she always curls her pointing finger back towards herself.
As a Canadian, I am rather ignorant when it comes to US politics and the US political system in general but I am trying to learn. I wonder whether this election, Christians will cast their vote for McCain due to his pro-life stance?
While Pro-life is certainly a valuable factor when it comes to me casting my vote, what if the candidate is pro-life but has little concern for the quality of life of their nation’s peoples? If a candidate is against abortion but shows little concern for ensuring the people of the nation have the basic needs of life like food , shelter, and right to health care, should we really base our vote solely on the abortion factor? Should we not also be concerned with whether the candidate stands up for feeding the hungry, comforting the downtrodden stranger, caring for the sick, and visiting the prisoner? (cf. Mt 25: 34-36)
If a candidate is Pro-life but fails to examine the problems facing their own country at home before depicting evil-incarnate as only found outside America’s borders, are they really upholding the principles of Jesus Christ? When a pro-life candidate fails to address and/or blatantly dismisses the poor, the weak, and the marginalized members of their society, it is my opinion that it would be unchristian to vote for them. So where does that leave Christian American voters this next election? Thank God I’m Canadian because I see American voters facing some very hard decisions… decisions that will impact the future of their nation as well as the world.
Angela – nicely put, and I agree. I think most politicians (and for that matter, ordinary citizens) fail the Matthew 25 test to one degree or another.
How about considering that McCain is a military guy and frankly this is how these guys talk off the cuff…
We do have the ‘other types’ who nuance the nuances and frankly leave you wondering what they believe.
IMO, Catholics have gotten away from believing in the existence of Satan and how he works in this world to accomplish his means. I have oftened wondered myself at the (brand of)evil -motivated -Islam that is fueling the atrocities that the Arab terrorists are committing. I know that the trueIslamic faith does not teach this. And stating that political-economic history is fueling this is also not enough.
For those who doubt that Satan is loose in the world, I would ask two things: have you discussed this in spiritual direction and what has the priest told you and why do you think Pope Leo XIII wrote this prayer? Note: I say this after (N.O.) Mass.
“Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. “
Added you to my blogroll, incidentally, Angela :)
Little gal,
Most of us only have to look in the mirror every morning to believe in Satan’s existence. No need to substantively project him outward, into foreign Other who we are not.
that is, into foreign Others (Muslims, Anti-Christians, etc.) who are are not…
Sorry to interrupt, but it’s time to pray for everyone along the Northern Gulf Coast, particularly New Orleans. From the latest NHC Advisory:
Hey, “little gal,” verstehe-mich, it’s either the “Devil” or “God,” I guess, but one of them sure doesn’t seem to like the United States of America: Gustav is scheduled to hit the coast of America just as Dubya-idiot is making his appearance at the Republican National Convention.
So, which do YOU think it is? I incline to think the Devil, as I don’t believe that God believes in “collateral damage.”
And, of course, I pray, too, that New Orleans is spared this time, although, in the spirit of “God helps those who help themselves,” I must note that I don’t think that anybody in responsible positions in your country has done much to ensure that the Katrina disaster wouldn’t happen again: after all, it didn’t much hurt the members of the “ownership society” the last time, did it?
Matt
Lord, have mercy!
McCain is certainly a disappointment on a lot of levels, and this is one of them. I can’t imagine even Bush giving such a shallow answer. But then, McCain has never been renowned for his tendencies toward philosophical (or ideological) reflection.
Let’s pray that the evacuations go smoothly and the damage is minimal in LA.
Mark:
How easily you have forgotten about the Archbishop of Mosul.
Margaret Sanger for president.
Now that’s evil.
Angela, I love you.
God bless you.
Should we not also be concerned with whether the candidate stands up for feeding the hungry, comforting the downtrodden stranger, caring for the sick, and visiting the prisoner?
A thoughtful comment, Angela (in is entirety, not just what I quoted here). Speaking for myself, I see the role of the federal government as playing its role (alongside numerous other mediating institutions) to ensure that the poor & hungry are cared for, and when necessary, providing for them if & when no other institution does.
A major difference in the debate between American conservatives & liberals (and one which has occasionally been discussed here) is the degree to which the federal government should present itself as the primary or even essentially exclusive provider of social services. Speaking as a conservative, I believe that the federal government’s first priority should be to enable other mediating institutions at the more proximate level (local, state) to deal with the problem. If and only if they are unable to do so, should the federal government act directly. The conservative suspicion is that liberals turn far too quickly to the federal government, neglecting the profound negative implications of always depending upon the state for these kinds of needs.
In the case of our presidential election, there is a distinction between having compassion for the less fortunate and seeking to (too?) quickly bring the power of the federal government to bear on their problems. That a conservative nominee doesn’t propose the federal government as the solution to every problem does not mean that s/he is unaware or apathetic with regard to those problems.
FWIW.
I have to wonder if Obama heard evil as he listened to the racist ravings of his lunatic ex preacher for 20+ years… some of us are quite gullable aren’t we? I wouldn’t worry so much about McCain’s narrow minded response but the trained ear tickling of a man who sat under, was married by, had his children baptized by a Lewis Farrakhan follower of the lowest degree. Shameful. Try to remember that evil can come as an angel of light and even a promise of change.
What a specimen of humanity Karen is!! I always wanted to meet a person who believes Obama is a Muslim.
Reagan was wrong: more terrifying than someone from the government here to help is someone from the governent here to defeat evil.
McCain addressed the evil that he was constitutionally mandated to confront by the Constitution. What Obama defined as evil were things that are supposed to be addressed at the community level. As President, Obama should have absolutely nothing to do with street crime or child abuse.
What a shame Mark:-( Instead of even thinking of what Obama believes or who his friends are, you choose to lie about a housewife with concerns… I don’t think he’s a Muslim at all…in fact he might just be a Christian with incredibly poor judgement. So sad that you are so caustic and bitter. Calm down Mark and remember that lying is a sin.
If a man can’t recognize foeticide or infanticide as evil, his definition of evil is worthless in my opinion.