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	<title>Comments on: Obama and McCain oppose same-sex marriage; support some forms of civil unions</title>
	<atom:link href="http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-35951</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bryan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 16:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-35951</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OBAMA SUPPORTS PUBLIC DEPRAVITY
(&amp; supports the &quot;rights&quot; of youngsters to view it!)

     Google &quot;Zombietime&quot; and click on &quot;Up Your Alley Fair.&quot; After recovering from the uncensored photos (!), Yahoo &quot;God to Same-Sexers: Hurry Up&quot; on the &quot;clericalwhispers&quot; listing (even Jesus told Judas to hurry up - John 13:27). Also Yahoo &quot;Dangerous Radicals of the Religious Right.&quot; See all of this before the predicted California earthquake happens a la Rev. 16:19 (&quot;the cities of the nations fell&quot;) - and before hurricanes and other conscience-stirring disasters occur elsewhere! The fast-moving goal of Gaydom is to quietly sneak its depravity on to every Main Street on earth while decent folks stay asleep and do nothing.     Bryan

(Obama and his porn-protecting collaborators, Pelosi and Newsom, did NOT approve of this message.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OBAMA SUPPORTS PUBLIC DEPRAVITY<br />
(&amp; supports the &#8220;rights&#8221; of youngsters to view it!)</p>
<p>     Google &#8220;Zombietime&#8221; and click on &#8220;Up Your Alley Fair.&#8221; After recovering from the uncensored photos (!), Yahoo &#8220;God to Same-Sexers: Hurry Up&#8221; on the &#8220;clericalwhispers&#8221; listing (even Jesus told Judas to hurry up &#8211; John 13:27). Also Yahoo &#8220;Dangerous Radicals of the Religious Right.&#8221; See all of this before the predicted California earthquake happens a la Rev. 16:19 (&#8220;the cities of the nations fell&#8221;) &#8211; and before hurricanes and other conscience-stirring disasters occur elsewhere! The fast-moving goal of Gaydom is to quietly sneak its depravity on to every Main Street on earth while decent folks stay asleep and do nothing.     Bryan</p>
<p>(Obama and his porn-protecting collaborators, Pelosi and Newsom, did NOT approve of this message.)</p>
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		<title>By: An Open Letter To Barack Obama &#171; BuelahMan&#8217;s Redstate Revolt</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-31702</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[An Open Letter To Barack Obama &#171; BuelahMan&#8217;s Redstate Revolt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 12:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-31702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] support SPNFPUHC (single-payer not-for-profit universal health care).   Don&#8217;t support same-sex marriage.  Don&#8217;t support public financing of [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] support SPNFPUHC (single-payer not-for-profit universal health care).   Don&#8217;t support same-sex marriage.  Don&#8217;t support public financing of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-29082</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[digbydolben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-29082</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Do you agree with that?&lt;/i&gt;

Of course, in all respects other than tax breaks: I believe tax breaks should only be for those--irrespective of &quot;gender&quot; or &quot;orientation&quot;--who are supporting dependents. That&#039;s the only &quot;interest&quot; the government has a right to, in terms of people&#039;s living arrangements. People NOT supporting dependents, whether &quot;married&quot; or &quot;civilly united&quot; or not, should pay the same tax rate as single people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Do you agree with that?</i></p>
<p>Of course, in all respects other than tax breaks: I believe tax breaks should only be for those&#8211;irrespective of &#8220;gender&#8221; or &#8220;orientation&#8221;&#8211;who are supporting dependents. That&#8217;s the only &#8220;interest&#8221; the government has a right to, in terms of people&#8217;s living arrangements. People NOT supporting dependents, whether &#8220;married&#8221; or &#8220;civilly united&#8221; or not, should pay the same tax rate as single people.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28939</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28939</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;A man with a lifelong partner, who attends mass every week, who spends his spare time with the gravely ill, who coordinates the activities of a disciplined Catholic prayer group, who is a resource for his friends in need —

What would you say about such a person?
And would it be so bad if he and his partner got — not a “marriage,” which plenty of gays have no interest in — but simply some of the legal benefits that heterosexual couples receive?&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;d say go for it, if and only if, brothers and sisters living in a lifelong partnership relationship are afforded exactly the same benefits.  Do you agree with that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>A man with a lifelong partner, who attends mass every week, who spends his spare time with the gravely ill, who coordinates the activities of a disciplined Catholic prayer group, who is a resource for his friends in need —</p>
<p>What would you say about such a person?<br />
And would it be so bad if he and his partner got — not a “marriage,” which plenty of gays have no interest in — but simply some of the legal benefits that heterosexual couples receive?</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d say go for it, if and only if, brothers and sisters living in a lifelong partnership relationship are afforded exactly the same benefits.  Do you agree with that?</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28937</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Maybe I am oversensitive, but that strikes me as a rather ugly comment. I think probably very few gay people are interested in gaining acceptance for any specific sex act. For those who want marriage, it is their relationships they want recognized. Is that really so difficult to imagine?&lt;/i&gt;

Civil marriage has never been about relationships (unless you&#039;re talking in a strictly legal &quot;partnership&quot; kind of relationship).  Civil marriage has never been about love or even fidelity.  It is about rights and responsibilities.  It&#039;s also about who gets what in the event of a break up.

The responsibility is that you generate the next generation of citizens to produce for your country, and provide fodder to fight in its wars.  The benefits you get flow from that.

Recently, regular marriage has demanded the benefits while shirking the responsibilities.  Why wouldn&#039;t gay people want that.  As has been pointed out before, married people are not living up to their responsibilities with regard to marriage, why should gay people be held to the same standard?

We need to reform marriage in this country especially with regard to &quot;no fault&quot; divorce.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Maybe I am oversensitive, but that strikes me as a rather ugly comment. I think probably very few gay people are interested in gaining acceptance for any specific sex act. For those who want marriage, it is their relationships they want recognized. Is that really so difficult to imagine?</i></p>
<p>Civil marriage has never been about relationships (unless you&#8217;re talking in a strictly legal &#8220;partnership&#8221; kind of relationship).  Civil marriage has never been about love or even fidelity.  It is about rights and responsibilities.  It&#8217;s also about who gets what in the event of a break up.</p>
<p>The responsibility is that you generate the next generation of citizens to produce for your country, and provide fodder to fight in its wars.  The benefits you get flow from that.</p>
<p>Recently, regular marriage has demanded the benefits while shirking the responsibilities.  Why wouldn&#8217;t gay people want that.  As has been pointed out before, married people are not living up to their responsibilities with regard to marriage, why should gay people be held to the same standard?</p>
<p>We need to reform marriage in this country especially with regard to &#8220;no fault&#8221; divorce.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28663</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 15:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28663</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excuse me for stepping in, little gal, but I fail to see what your &quot;challenge&quot; to digby is.

And quotations from a man who says that violence against homosexuals should not at all be surprising these days are not an appeal to legitimate authority, as far as I am concerned....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excuse me for stepping in, little gal, but I fail to see what your &#8220;challenge&#8221; to digby is.</p>
<p>And quotations from a man who says that violence against homosexuals should not at all be surprising these days are not an appeal to legitimate authority, as far as I am concerned&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: little gal</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28659</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[little gal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 13:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28659</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Digby:

You have decided not to respond to my challenge as laid out in my post--play around with it all you want....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Digby:</p>
<p>You have decided not to respond to my challenge as laid out in my post&#8211;play around with it all you want&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[digbydolben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I comprehended you perfectly, and I&#039;m pointing out to you that the seven year old kids who you claim can&#039;t understand the non-sex-specific character of &quot;parenting&quot; will, by the time they&#039;re in high school, be perfectly accepting of parenting by couples of the same sex, as most of my students are. So what do you suppose is NOT going on, among your seven-year-olds, to persuade them that homosexuals are unacceptable as parents?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I comprehended you perfectly, and I&#8217;m pointing out to you that the seven year old kids who you claim can&#8217;t understand the non-sex-specific character of &#8220;parenting&#8221; will, by the time they&#8217;re in high school, be perfectly accepting of parenting by couples of the same sex, as most of my students are. So what do you suppose is NOT going on, among your seven-year-olds, to persuade them that homosexuals are unacceptable as parents?</p>
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		<title>By: little gal</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28641</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[little gal]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Digby:

For someone who teaches literature and composition, you didn&#039;t comprehend my post.  I specifically mentioned 7 year old children.  High schoolers are not 7 years old.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Digby:</p>
<p>For someone who teaches literature and composition, you didn&#8217;t comprehend my post.  I specifically mentioned 7 year old children.  High schoolers are not 7 years old.</p>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28640</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[digbydolben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 02:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28640</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zach, I feel good when they feel secure enough to speak their own minds; many of them often openly express views I strongly disagree with. I tend to be more &quot;conservative&quot; than they in a lot of different ways.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zach, I feel good when they feel secure enough to speak their own minds; many of them often openly express views I strongly disagree with. I tend to be more &#8220;conservative&#8221; than they in a lot of different ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Zach</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28637</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28637</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[digby, 

does it make you feel good when your students agree with you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>digby, </p>
<p>does it make you feel good when your students agree with you?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/07/17/obama-and-mccain-oppose-same-sex-marriage-support-some-forms-of-civil-unions/#comment-28636</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[digbydolben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 01:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2915#comment-28636</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Explaining sexual issues to children&quot; is not part of my curriculum, for sure. I teach literature and composition to extemely gifted high-schoolers. In discussion and analysis of literature, questions of sexual identity and morality arise frequently.

I can assure you that modern youth--particularly intelligent, well-read youth--are overwhelmingly opposed to the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding the position and rights of &quot;gay&quot; people in the modern world. In fact, that is even true of the majority of students in a Catholic school where I recently taught and which is generally academically inferior, compared to the European international school where I&#039;ll be next year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Explaining sexual issues to children&#8221; is not part of my curriculum, for sure. I teach literature and composition to extemely gifted high-schoolers. In discussion and analysis of literature, questions of sexual identity and morality arise frequently.</p>
<p>I can assure you that modern youth&#8211;particularly intelligent, well-read youth&#8211;are overwhelmingly opposed to the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding the position and rights of &#8220;gay&#8221; people in the modern world. In fact, that is even true of the majority of students in a Catholic school where I recently taught and which is generally academically inferior, compared to the European international school where I&#8217;ll be next year.</p>
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