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	<title>Comments on: A Shameful Supreme Court Decision</title>
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	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-28150</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 05:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-28150</guid>
		<description>Phil:

1) I&#039;m the only contributor here who is an anarchist. 

2) Don&#039;t know why you can&#039;t cut and paste. We do it all the time here. You may have an archaic browser. Time for an update?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil:</p>
<p>1) I&#8217;m the only contributor here who is an anarchist. </p>
<p>2) Don&#8217;t know why you can&#8217;t cut and paste. We do it all the time here. You may have an archaic browser. Time for an update?</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Steinacker</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-28148</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Steinacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 05:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-28148</guid>
		<description>I rarely visit this site since I discovered it a year or so because each time I find the lefty idiocy that pervades what is offered as reasoned “argument” is so pathetic I wind up getting sucked into what eventually becomes a waste of time. It is a waste, because as a rule those that advance a leftist agenda – whether within the Church or in our political culture - simply cannot hope to win a discussion without resorting to omissions, distortions, &amp; misrepresentations. Reading this nonsense takes too long (for nothing especially gained) and responding takes even longer – too long.

Oh well, here we go again.

I was going to attempt to be thorough in my attributions by copying and pasting a complete list of all the various &quot;nobles&quot; &amp; &quot;knaves&quot; from either side of this debate, but I just discovered that the cowards who run this site prevent one from having that capability (unlike most other blogs). I suppose they put a high value on the content, and harbor fears that others might try to steal their copy. 

Given the comprehensively erudite nature of the arguments mounted by those who respectfully disagree with the bishops&#039; position on gun control so ably misrepresented and distorted by the likes of (oops, can&#039;t list them all, haven&#039;t got time, and I can&#039;t copy and paste; you know who you are, anyway - we ALL do!), I must conclude that it is the content contributed by the conservative, constitutional, gun-rights-Catholics that has such great value requiring protection from copyright violations.  

It certainly couldn&#039;t be MM or Kat, or digby or nate, etc. Their arguments are thin gruel.

And speaking of you guys, I got one for you!

You’ve all been demanding – in your typically self-righteously haughty manner - our blind loyalty to non-Magesterial pronouncements by groups of bishops without sufficient authority to issue statements with any greater weight than advisory. And you’ve done so unequivocally and passionately. This is irrefutable. It’s in the record (don’t worry, it won’t get out – they won’t let me copy and paste it…).

Therefore, would I not be correct in drawing from your individual and collective (doesn’t that word make you all feel so warm and fuzzy inside?) positions the inference that you unreservedly and completely refute the alleged Vat II notion oft-cited by liberal Catholics of the Primacy of Individual Conscience over hard Church teaching, dogma, doctrine, Canon law? Catholic liberals all, YOU are familiar with the concept that one must follow one&#039;s own conscience over the Magesterium, right? I’m SURE you’ve advanced that position now and again – maybe over the abortion issue, perchance?

I mean, don&#039;t you guys use that one now and then yourselves? Or, if not you, then certainly most of your liberal Catholic friends do who elevate a few bishops&#039; non-binding opinions to the level of hard Church teaching on policy positions that are more in tune with hard left teachings. Funny how that works.

Kudos to Freddie, SB, jh, Paul in the GNW, Teutonic Tim, and so many others who cleaned the collective clocks of these pseudo-Catholic anarchists. Special compliments to Richard, who set MM back on his ass so well MM still doesn&#039;t seven see it. Richard, you and the others operate within such a fact and thought-based framework that MM and friends were out of their league. They certainly demonstrated no grasp of your arguments sufficient to meaningful retort.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I rarely visit this site since I discovered it a year or so because each time I find the lefty idiocy that pervades what is offered as reasoned “argument” is so pathetic I wind up getting sucked into what eventually becomes a waste of time. It is a waste, because as a rule those that advance a leftist agenda – whether within the Church or in our political culture &#8211; simply cannot hope to win a discussion without resorting to omissions, distortions, &amp; misrepresentations. Reading this nonsense takes too long (for nothing especially gained) and responding takes even longer – too long.</p>
<p>Oh well, here we go again.</p>
<p>I was going to attempt to be thorough in my attributions by copying and pasting a complete list of all the various &#8220;nobles&#8221; &amp; &#8220;knaves&#8221; from either side of this debate, but I just discovered that the cowards who run this site prevent one from having that capability (unlike most other blogs). I suppose they put a high value on the content, and harbor fears that others might try to steal their copy. </p>
<p>Given the comprehensively erudite nature of the arguments mounted by those who respectfully disagree with the bishops&#8217; position on gun control so ably misrepresented and distorted by the likes of (oops, can&#8217;t list them all, haven&#8217;t got time, and I can&#8217;t copy and paste; you know who you are, anyway &#8211; we ALL do!), I must conclude that it is the content contributed by the conservative, constitutional, gun-rights-Catholics that has such great value requiring protection from copyright violations.  </p>
<p>It certainly couldn&#8217;t be MM or Kat, or digby or nate, etc. Their arguments are thin gruel.</p>
<p>And speaking of you guys, I got one for you!</p>
<p>You’ve all been demanding – in your typically self-righteously haughty manner &#8211; our blind loyalty to non-Magesterial pronouncements by groups of bishops without sufficient authority to issue statements with any greater weight than advisory. And you’ve done so unequivocally and passionately. This is irrefutable. It’s in the record (don’t worry, it won’t get out – they won’t let me copy and paste it…).</p>
<p>Therefore, would I not be correct in drawing from your individual and collective (doesn’t that word make you all feel so warm and fuzzy inside?) positions the inference that you unreservedly and completely refute the alleged Vat II notion oft-cited by liberal Catholics of the Primacy of Individual Conscience over hard Church teaching, dogma, doctrine, Canon law? Catholic liberals all, YOU are familiar with the concept that one must follow one&#8217;s own conscience over the Magesterium, right? I’m SURE you’ve advanced that position now and again – maybe over the abortion issue, perchance?</p>
<p>I mean, don&#8217;t you guys use that one now and then yourselves? Or, if not you, then certainly most of your liberal Catholic friends do who elevate a few bishops&#8217; non-binding opinions to the level of hard Church teaching on policy positions that are more in tune with hard left teachings. Funny how that works.</p>
<p>Kudos to Freddie, SB, jh, Paul in the GNW, Teutonic Tim, and so many others who cleaned the collective clocks of these pseudo-Catholic anarchists. Special compliments to Richard, who set MM back on his ass so well MM still doesn&#8217;t seven see it. Richard, you and the others operate within such a fact and thought-based framework that MM and friends were out of their league. They certainly demonstrated no grasp of your arguments sufficient to meaningful retort.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-26648</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-26648</guid>
		<description>c matt - Your suggestion that slave owners believed they were merely taking freedom away from humans beings that they, in fact, considered to be &quot;persons&quot; flies in the face of all evidence showing that they considered them less than human. 

I wonder about your insistence on this point: that slave owners considered slaves to be fully persons. What are you attempting to prove by making such claims? That slavery &quot;wasn&#039;t so bad&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>c matt &#8211; Your suggestion that slave owners believed they were merely taking freedom away from humans beings that they, in fact, considered to be &#8220;persons&#8221; flies in the face of all evidence showing that they considered them less than human. </p>
<p>I wonder about your insistence on this point: that slave owners considered slaves to be fully persons. What are you attempting to prove by making such claims? That slavery &#8220;wasn&#8217;t so bad&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: c matt</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-26644</link>
		<dc:creator>c matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-26644</guid>
		<description>It certainly does &quot;reduce&quot; them to property - but to &lt;i&gt;reduce&lt;/i&gt; them to property, they must have been something above property beforehand - throughout history, slavery has only been applied to people, not non-people.  In that sense, making someone a &quot;slave&quot; means you must at least recognize they are persons whose freedom you are taking.  I have never heard of someone referring to their covered wagon or cow as a &quot;slave.&quot; You are obviously not very familiar with the historical use of the term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly does &#8220;reduce&#8221; them to property &#8211; but to <i>reduce</i> them to property, they must have been something above property beforehand &#8211; throughout history, slavery has only been applied to people, not non-people.  In that sense, making someone a &#8220;slave&#8221; means you must at least recognize they are persons whose freedom you are taking.  I have never heard of someone referring to their covered wagon or cow as a &#8220;slave.&#8221; You are obviously not very familiar with the historical use of the term.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-26543</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 05:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-26543</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;Slavery implies the personhood of the enslaved - you don’t “enslave” horses or carts.&lt;/I&gt;

It most certainly does not. It reduces a person to property. You&#039;re out of your mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Slavery implies the personhood of the enslaved &#8211; you don’t “enslave” horses or carts.</i></p>
<p>It most certainly does not. It reduces a person to property. You&#8217;re out of your mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Faciamus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-26537</link>
		<dc:creator>Faciamus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:29:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-26537</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w32.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w32.html&quot;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w32.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w32.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w32.html</a>&#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Why We Should Listen to the Bishops &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-26430</link>
		<dc:creator>Why We Should Listen to the Bishops &#171; Vox Nova</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-26430</guid>
		<description>[...] We Should Listen to the&#160;Bishops  In the context of my two recent entries on gun control, some bloggers have argued that am I elevating my own personal opinion to the level of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We Should Listen to the&nbsp;Bishops  In the context of my two recent entries on gun control, some bloggers have argued that am I elevating my own personal opinion to the level of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: c matt</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-26381</link>
		<dc:creator>c matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-26381</guid>
		<description>Slavery implies the personhood of the enslaved - you don&#039;t &quot;enslave&quot; horses or carts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slavery implies the personhood of the enslaved &#8211; you don&#8217;t &#8220;enslave&#8221; horses or carts.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-26290</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J. Iafrate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 17:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-26290</guid>
		<description>Jim - You have fallen for the myth of the state as savior. Unlearn, buddy, unlearn. We have another Savior in Christ Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim &#8211; You have fallen for the myth of the state as savior. Unlearn, buddy, unlearn. We have another Savior in Christ Jesus.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/26/a-shameful-supreme-court-decision/#comment-26289</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2775#comment-26289</guid>
		<description>It would be helpful if everyone took a step back and looked at the big picture:  we are called to create a world of peace where guns do not exist. 

&quot;Peace, many people believe and say, is impossible, either as an ideal or as a reality.  Here on the contrary is our message, your message too, men of good will, the message of all mankind: peace is possible! . . . peace is a duty.&quot; - Paul VI

As it relates to guns - it is our &lt;b&gt;duty&lt;/b&gt; to create a world where homicidal weaponry does not exist.  

&quot;Let us all unite to fight every kind of violence and to conquer war!&quot; - JPII</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be helpful if everyone took a step back and looked at the big picture:  we are called to create a world of peace where guns do not exist. </p>
<p>&#8220;Peace, many people believe and say, is impossible, either as an ideal or as a reality.  Here on the contrary is our message, your message too, men of good will, the message of all mankind: peace is possible! . . . peace is a duty.&#8221; &#8211; Paul VI</p>
<p>As it relates to guns &#8211; it is our <b>duty</b> to create a world where homicidal weaponry does not exist.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Let us all unite to fight every kind of violence and to conquer war!&#8221; &#8211; JPII</p>
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