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	<title>Comments on: Quote of the Week: Paul Evdokimov</title>
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	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Karlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 23:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark

Paul Evdokimov, despite being Orthodox, has had a profound influence on the Catholic Church through his input in discussions at Vatican II. He&#039;s also in the &quot;school of thought&quot; of Florensky and Bulgakov -- although, of course, not always limited to the past in his own theological interaction. Not everything he said I agree with, but he was always interested in integrating the positives and even necessary criticisms of various theological, philosophical, and socio-economic traditions. 

You can see it in this passage -- and, despite what BA might think, you are right, our &quot;culture&quot; has turned wisdom (and the arts) into mere trinkets. Yes, a few can live in and flourish in this situation, but does that few make up for what happens on the whole? It&#039;s like three card monty. The card shark will let a person or two win to make everyone watching thinking they can win as well. 

Poetry, imo, is dead. Yes, students read poetry in English classes, as if they are doing autopsies. And one can point to a few movements in the earth as the gas shuffles the corpse around, but that&#039;s about it. For the other arts, I think William Morris showed how detoriated modern aesthetics has become; his attempts to save it from the machine has ended in his own works being reproduced by that same machine. And the prophet will always be tossed aside for profit, once money is the ultimate truth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark</p>
<p>Paul Evdokimov, despite being Orthodox, has had a profound influence on the Catholic Church through his input in discussions at Vatican II. He&#8217;s also in the &#8220;school of thought&#8221; of Florensky and Bulgakov &#8212; although, of course, not always limited to the past in his own theological interaction. Not everything he said I agree with, but he was always interested in integrating the positives and even necessary criticisms of various theological, philosophical, and socio-economic traditions. </p>
<p>You can see it in this passage &#8212; and, despite what BA might think, you are right, our &#8220;culture&#8221; has turned wisdom (and the arts) into mere trinkets. Yes, a few can live in and flourish in this situation, but does that few make up for what happens on the whole? It&#8217;s like three card monty. The card shark will let a person or two win to make everyone watching thinking they can win as well. </p>
<p>Poetry, imo, is dead. Yes, students read poetry in English classes, as if they are doing autopsies. And one can point to a few movements in the earth as the gas shuffles the corpse around, but that&#8217;s about it. For the other arts, I think William Morris showed how detoriated modern aesthetics has become; his attempts to save it from the machine has ended in his own works being reproduced by that same machine. And the prophet will always be tossed aside for profit, once money is the ultimate truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25220</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BA

Right you are. And I have learned not to romanticaize the past

But I would just say that &quot;commodity culture&quot; has so pentrated all spects of our life that the small bands of &#039;real&#039;artists, thinkers and poets must be especially supported today, in the light of the technolical and commercial onslaught.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BA</p>
<p>Right you are. And I have learned not to romanticaize the past</p>
<p>But I would just say that &#8220;commodity culture&#8221; has so pentrated all spects of our life that the small bands of &#8216;real&#8217;artists, thinkers and poets must be especially supported today, in the light of the technolical and commercial onslaught.</p>
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		<title>By: blackadderiv</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25216</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blackadderiv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark, 

True, but when has this ever not been the case? It&#039;s not as if most people in the middle ages spent their time reading St. Thomas Aquinas (most people couldn&#039;t even read, and were probably more concerned with not starving to death). We tend to have an overly romantic view about culture in the past because only the best and highest works of any era tend to survive, but in reality Sturgeon&#039;s law tends to be, in anything, overly optimistic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, </p>
<p>True, but when has this ever not been the case? It&#8217;s not as if most people in the middle ages spent their time reading St. Thomas Aquinas (most people couldn&#8217;t even read, and were probably more concerned with not starving to death). We tend to have an overly romantic view about culture in the past because only the best and highest works of any era tend to survive, but in reality Sturgeon&#8217;s law tends to be, in anything, overly optimistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25215</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes. But this is a small counterculture in the much wider culture, eh?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. But this is a small counterculture in the much wider culture, eh?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: blackadderiv</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25214</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blackadderiv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25214</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;In our culture, poets, artists and thinkers are reduced to either entertainers, producers of the commodity of the book/artwork, or persons who offer distractions/respite from the ‘real world’ of commerce and technology.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;d say that this post indicates otherwise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In our culture, poets, artists and thinkers are reduced to either entertainers, producers of the commodity of the book/artwork, or persons who offer distractions/respite from the ‘real world’ of commerce and technology.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d say that this post indicates otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25204</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BA,

That is not the deeper point.

In our culture, poets, artists and  thinkers are  reduced to either entertainers, producers of  the commodity of the book/artwork, or persons who offer distractions/respite from the &#039;real world&#039; of commerce and technology.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BA,</p>
<p>That is not the deeper point.</p>
<p>In our culture, poets, artists and  thinkers are  reduced to either entertainers, producers of  the commodity of the book/artwork, or persons who offer distractions/respite from the &#8216;real world&#8217; of commerce and technology.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: blackadderiv</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25203</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[blackadderiv]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25203</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;In a technological and free market civilization, a poet, a thinker, a prophet — all of these are considered useless beings. Artists and disinterested intellectuals already constitute a new form of the proletariat.&lt;/i&gt;

I can&#039;t speak to the plight of &#039;disinterested intellectuals&#039; (as St. Augustine said of centaurs, I would wait until one is found before passing judgment). But the idea that artists are somehow oppressed in &quot;technological and free market civilization&quot; is laughable. I know of no civilization that has had more poets, thinkers, and self-described prophets than does the modern West, in part because the wealth technological and free market civilization has provided has made it feasible for many more people to make a living by such occupations than in the past.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In a technological and free market civilization, a poet, a thinker, a prophet — all of these are considered useless beings. Artists and disinterested intellectuals already constitute a new form of the proletariat.</i></p>
<p>I can&#8217;t speak to the plight of &#8216;disinterested intellectuals&#8217; (as St. Augustine said of centaurs, I would wait until one is found before passing judgment). But the idea that artists are somehow oppressed in &#8220;technological and free market civilization&#8221; is laughable. I know of no civilization that has had more poets, thinkers, and self-described prophets than does the modern West, in part because the wealth technological and free market civilization has provided has made it feasible for many more people to make a living by such occupations than in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: samrocha</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25192</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[samrocha]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m so glad to be a new form of proletariat...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m so glad to be a new form of proletariat&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 18:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Henry,

This quotre is excellent in so, so many ways. Every couple sentences are a gem and could be a subject for an entire post.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry,</p>
<p>This quotre is excellent in so, so many ways. Every couple sentences are a gem and could be a subject for an entire post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: T. Shaw</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/20/quote-of-the-week-paul-evdokimov-2/#comment-25173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T. Shaw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2736#comment-25173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For sure!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For sure!</p>
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