<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Obama, McCain, and Tax Progressivity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:19:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Define &#8220;Rich&#8221; &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-32017</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Define &#8220;Rich&#8221; &#171; Vox Nova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 21:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-32017</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] I discussed before, the contrast between the Obama and McCain tax plans is stark. Obama’s plan is progressive in the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I discussed before, the contrast between the Obama and McCain tax plans is stark. Obama’s plan is progressive in the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chart of the Day &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-27486</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chart of the Day &#171; Vox Nova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-27486</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] cuts not only had little aggregate effect, but actually had adverse distributional consequences. McCain&#8217;s tax proposals would do the same. Another key imperative, harking all the way back to Pope Leo XIII, is to bolster [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] cuts not only had little aggregate effect, but actually had adverse distributional consequences. McCain&#8217;s tax proposals would do the same. Another key imperative, harking all the way back to Pope Leo XIII, is to bolster [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 2008 Presidential Candidates&#8217; Tax Proposals &#171; Vox Nova</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-25435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[2008 Presidential Candidates&#8217; Tax Proposals &#171; Vox Nova]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-25435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] policy could improve the living standards of working families, which seem worth our time as well.  Morning&#8217;s Minion has already posted on the candidates and their respective tax policies based on the Tax Policy Center [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] policy could improve the living standards of working families, which seem worth our time as well.  Morning&#8217;s Minion has already posted on the candidates and their respective tax policies based on the Tax Policy Center [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DarwinCatholic</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24408</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DarwinCatholic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:12:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24408</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a table that shows average 2005 income for the quintiles and their effective tax rate and the share of total tax revenue they provide:

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/18/tax_3.png

The 4th quintile has an average income of 85k and 17% of tax revenue, and the top quintile has an average income of 230k and provides 69% of total tax revenue.

So I&#039;d say that 4th quintile is definitely very comfortable middle class (in all but the most expensive parts of the country) and the top one makes &quot;a hell of a lot more than I do&quot; which is how most of us define &quot;rich&quot;.

I&#039;m not saying that these people don&#039;t deserve to pay lots of taxes.  Clearly, they&#039;re benefiting quite a bit from the American system.  I&#039;m just saying that given they past most taxes, it&#039;s hardly surprising if a tax cut benefits them.

Now, six years ago our family was in the 2nd quintile (avg income for 2nd quintile is 37k, and they provide 9% of total tax revenues) with two kids, and that year I paid a whopping -500 dollars in income tax.  In other words, they paid me $500 after tax credits.  Now given that I was getting back more money than had been witheld in the first place, is it surprising that it would be hard to &quot;cut&quot; my taxes even farther?  Sure, it would be great to help out some people without kids making 35k, since I&#039;m sure they&#039;re paying at least a little in taxes.  But there&#039;s just not much to cut.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a table that shows average 2005 income for the quintiles and their effective tax rate and the share of total tax revenue they provide:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/18/tax_3.png" rel="nofollow">http://www.marginalrevolution.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/18/tax_3.png</a></p>
<p>The 4th quintile has an average income of 85k and 17% of tax revenue, and the top quintile has an average income of 230k and provides 69% of total tax revenue.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;d say that 4th quintile is definitely very comfortable middle class (in all but the most expensive parts of the country) and the top one makes &#8220;a hell of a lot more than I do&#8221; which is how most of us define &#8220;rich&#8221;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that these people don&#8217;t deserve to pay lots of taxes.  Clearly, they&#8217;re benefiting quite a bit from the American system.  I&#8217;m just saying that given they past most taxes, it&#8217;s hardly surprising if a tax cut benefits them.</p>
<p>Now, six years ago our family was in the 2nd quintile (avg income for 2nd quintile is 37k, and they provide 9% of total tax revenues) with two kids, and that year I paid a whopping -500 dollars in income tax.  In other words, they paid me $500 after tax credits.  Now given that I was getting back more money than had been witheld in the first place, is it surprising that it would be hard to &#8220;cut&#8221; my taxes even farther?  Sure, it would be great to help out some people without kids making 35k, since I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;re paying at least a little in taxes.  But there&#8217;s just not much to cut.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24397</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How much do the top two quintiles earn, relative to that of the rest of (some of) us?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much do the top two quintiles earn, relative to that of the rest of (some of) us?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DarwinCatholic</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DarwinCatholic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Given that the top two quintiles currently pay 85% of all federal income taxes, it&#039;s not surprising that just about any tax-cutting proposal would benefit them more than others.  By contrast, the bottom quintile has an effective tax rate around 4%.  So again, it&#039;s not surprising if it&#039;s hard to reduce the tax burden there unless you&#039;re actively giving money away in the form of tax credits.

Look, I&#039;m moderately open to the idea that cutting personal income taxes further is simply not the responsible approach right now.  It&#039;s not like we&#039;re at the ludicrous top rates that we were back before Reagan.  But your complaint that under McCain our tas system would be less progressive in any significant fashion is partisanship over an issue that hardly signifies.  Under _any_ of the proposals on the table, 50%+ of total federal income tax receipts would still come from the top 10% of earners.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that the top two quintiles currently pay 85% of all federal income taxes, it&#8217;s not surprising that just about any tax-cutting proposal would benefit them more than others.  By contrast, the bottom quintile has an effective tax rate around 4%.  So again, it&#8217;s not surprising if it&#8217;s hard to reduce the tax burden there unless you&#8217;re actively giving money away in the form of tax credits.</p>
<p>Look, I&#8217;m moderately open to the idea that cutting personal income taxes further is simply not the responsible approach right now.  It&#8217;s not like we&#8217;re at the ludicrous top rates that we were back before Reagan.  But your complaint that under McCain our tas system would be less progressive in any significant fashion is partisanship over an issue that hardly signifies.  Under _any_ of the proposals on the table, 50%+ of total federal income tax receipts would still come from the top 10% of earners.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blackadder</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24365</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blackadder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One other point. I think that Republican Presidents are much more constrained in their ability to appoint moderate or &quot;stealth&quot; nominees than they have been in the past. As the Harriet Miers brewhaha showed, conservatives are quite willing to oppose a Republican nominee if they smell another Souter, and since Democrats aren&#039;t going to be inclined to put up that much of a defense of any McCain nominee, without conservative support anyone he picks is basically sunk. I would expect a McCain presidency to try and find people as near to John Roberts as possible (they might even consider cloning him). Someone with stellar credentials, an attractive demeanor, and a generally conservative aura without much of a specific paper trail.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One other point. I think that Republican Presidents are much more constrained in their ability to appoint moderate or &#8220;stealth&#8221; nominees than they have been in the past. As the Harriet Miers brewhaha showed, conservatives are quite willing to oppose a Republican nominee if they smell another Souter, and since Democrats aren&#8217;t going to be inclined to put up that much of a defense of any McCain nominee, without conservative support anyone he picks is basically sunk. I would expect a McCain presidency to try and find people as near to John Roberts as possible (they might even consider cloning him). Someone with stellar credentials, an attractive demeanor, and a generally conservative aura without much of a specific paper trail.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24362</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is why the cynical me thinks the pro-life (specifically antii-abortion) yield of a McCain vote is very, very little, taking into account all of the variables of political setting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why the cynical me thinks the pro-life (specifically antii-abortion) yield of a McCain vote is very, very little, taking into account all of the variables of political setting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blackadder</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24359</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blackadder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark, 

The Bork nomination is a good example of what I&#039;m talking about. Bork&#039;s nomination failed not because the Democrats controlled the Senate (they controlled the Senate during the Thomas nomination too, and by a larger margin). It failed because the Democrats were able to convince the public that Bork was too extreme for the job.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, </p>
<p>The Bork nomination is a good example of what I&#8217;m talking about. Bork&#8217;s nomination failed not because the Democrats controlled the Senate (they controlled the Senate during the Thomas nomination too, and by a larger margin). It failed because the Democrats were able to convince the public that Bork was too extreme for the job.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24355</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BA,

Of course.The public was so outraged with the theatrical attempts to stop the Bork nomination that it never allowed anything like the debacle that led to David Souter. Oh wait, I forgot. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BA,</p>
<p>Of course.The public was so outraged with the theatrical attempts to stop the Bork nomination that it never allowed anything like the debacle that led to David Souter. Oh wait, I forgot. :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blackadder</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24350</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blackadder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mark, 

Supreme Court nominations are different from taxes in a number of respects. If the President sends a tax bill to congress, they can just ignore it, water it down, pass their own bill instead, etc. In the case of a Supreme Court nomination, however, they have none of these options. They can&#039;t simply ignore the nomination; the public wouldn&#039;t stand for it. They can&#039;t offer their own nominee, so they know that even if they reject a particular nominee, the President could just nominate someone just as bad. 

In addition, in the case of a tax people, the Senators pretty much know what they are voting on. They know what taxes the bill would cut and by how much. It&#039;s a lot harder for people to know exactly what a Supreme Court nominee would do on the bench. 

I tend to view nominations fights as being fundamentally about public perceptions. If opponents can convince the public that the nominee is too extreme or unqualified for the job, then there will be political cover for the Senators to reject him. If the public likes the nominee, then Senators will be reluctant to vote no. 

I have doubts about the kind of justice McCain would appoint if he got the chance. I have no doubt as to the kind of justice Obama would appoint.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, </p>
<p>Supreme Court nominations are different from taxes in a number of respects. If the President sends a tax bill to congress, they can just ignore it, water it down, pass their own bill instead, etc. In the case of a Supreme Court nomination, however, they have none of these options. They can&#8217;t simply ignore the nomination; the public wouldn&#8217;t stand for it. They can&#8217;t offer their own nominee, so they know that even if they reject a particular nominee, the President could just nominate someone just as bad. </p>
<p>In addition, in the case of a tax people, the Senators pretty much know what they are voting on. They know what taxes the bill would cut and by how much. It&#8217;s a lot harder for people to know exactly what a Supreme Court nominee would do on the bench. </p>
<p>I tend to view nominations fights as being fundamentally about public perceptions. If opponents can convince the public that the nominee is too extreme or unqualified for the job, then there will be political cover for the Senators to reject him. If the public likes the nominee, then Senators will be reluctant to vote no. </p>
<p>I have doubts about the kind of justice McCain would appoint if he got the chance. I have no doubt as to the kind of justice Obama would appoint.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark DeFrancisis</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/06/12/obama-mccain-and-tax-progressivity/#comment-24345</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark DeFrancisis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2666#comment-24345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In your calculus, could the same thing be said about SC nominees who are really pro-life as you say about tax-cuts, with a McCain presidency and an even more Dem controlled congress?

If so, why McCain?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In your calculus, could the same thing be said about SC nominees who are really pro-life as you say about tax-cuts, with a McCain presidency and an even more Dem controlled congress?</p>
<p>If so, why McCain?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

