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	<title>Comments on: Bertone Drops Hints on New Encyclical</title>
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	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22840</link>
		<dc:creator>digbydolben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22840</guid>
		<description>From one teacher to another:

The student is trying to ingratiate herself with you, Professor Scriblerus. It&#039;s a common enough trick, although it only seems to work on particularly vain instructors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From one teacher to another:</p>
<p>The student is trying to ingratiate herself with you, Professor Scriblerus. It&#8217;s a common enough trick, although it only seems to work on particularly vain instructors.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22813</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry Karlson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 08:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22813</guid>
		<description>Scriblerus

Then were you being fair to the discussion of Calvinism and its influence in America, because, as you know (or should know if you are teaching students about the Reformation), Calvinism extends beyond Calvin? And since you are the one who is telling the students what to think, well, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The extention of Calvinism into the secular world and its influence on American culture and how most Americans think has been verified in many mediums (McGrath does a good job of it, if you want a good source).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scriblerus</p>
<p>Then were you being fair to the discussion of Calvinism and its influence in America, because, as you know (or should know if you are teaching students about the Reformation), Calvinism extends beyond Calvin? And since you are the one who is telling the students what to think, well, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The extention of Calvinism into the secular world and its influence on American culture and how most Americans think has been verified in many mediums (McGrath does a good job of it, if you want a good source).</p>
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		<title>By: scriblerus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22791</link>
		<dc:creator>scriblerus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 01:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22791</guid>
		<description>&quot;Please do not throw secular American political terms (”liberal”) that have no meaning other than a catch-all put-down in my direction, please.&quot;

We will only do this when you stop slinging the term &quot;Calvinist&quot; around so ignorantly.  I actually excerpted some of your posts for a test for a Reformation class that I teach and, after having the students read Luther, Calvin and other reformers, asked them to critique the posts.

As one of the students commented after she took the test, &quot;nobody is that stupid, are they?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Please do not throw secular American political terms (”liberal”) that have no meaning other than a catch-all put-down in my direction, please.&#8221;</p>
<p>We will only do this when you stop slinging the term &#8220;Calvinist&#8221; around so ignorantly.  I actually excerpted some of your posts for a test for a Reformation class that I teach and, after having the students read Luther, Calvin and other reformers, asked them to critique the posts.</p>
<p>As one of the students commented after she took the test, &#8220;nobody is that stupid, are they?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: bkillian</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22747</link>
		<dc:creator>bkillian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 13:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22747</guid>
		<description>The &#039;vale of tears&#039; perspective of the world will never be outdated.  What is outdated is the claim that the Catholic view of sex and pleasure is unhealthy.  In fact, it&#039;s looking very healthy and realistic to a lot more people today living in the fallout of the sexual revolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;vale of tears&#8217; perspective of the world will never be outdated.  What is outdated is the claim that the Catholic view of sex and pleasure is unhealthy.  In fact, it&#8217;s looking very healthy and realistic to a lot more people today living in the fallout of the sexual revolution.</p>
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		<title>By: DarwinCatholic</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22638</link>
		<dc:creator>DarwinCatholic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 16:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22638</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Let’s get this right. Over the last million years of so, the earth has fallen into a pattern of climate change every 100,000 years– with an ice age followed by a warming period. We are about 10,000 years into the last of these warming periods. During the warming period, the temperature rises by 2-5 degrees. For the temperature to rise again by this amount so shortly into a warming cycle is clear evidence something else is at play. We are talking about the warmest period of the earth in 12 million years, or maybe even in 50 million years (the “climate change” that killed the dinosaurs).&lt;/i&gt;

Let&#039;s get a couple other things right:

-The dinosuars died out 65 million years ago, and the extinction is pretty universally agreed to have been the result of a major asteroid impact in what is now the Yucatan Peninsula -- nto climate change.  (We&#039;re overdue for a massive asteroid impact, given historical trends, but that&#039;s overdue in a statistical sense, so take it for what you will.)

-Given that we&#039;re only 10,000 years into the current interglacial period, and we still have lots of glaciers, it&#039;s possible that we simply haven&#039;t finished warming yet.

-Within the last few million years, during which the continents have been in pretty much their modern positions, we have had periods in which the earth was warm enough that there were no glaciers at all -- we&#039;re not there yet by a long shot.

-While many suggested moves towards reducing CO2 emmisions could perhaps be achieved at the cost of 1% of GDP, if you&#039;re right about the scale of the problem (that it could cause 5% to 20% to mitigate the effects once they take place) then those 1% actions wouldn&#039;t be nearly enough to stop or even much slow the trend.

-The reason why population control and environmentalism are so often tied is that in the US and Europe, per capita CO2 production has leveled or dropped over the last decade or two.  The problem is that the population here is still rising (unlike Europe) and so our total emmissions are going up.  Without population control we&#039;d have to take measures that would bring per capita CO2 production down below what China currently has, if not lower.  And so most of the claims that greenhouse gasses would be relatively easy to address are centered around serious attempts at reducing population growth, and eventually shrinking the world population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Let’s get this right. Over the last million years of so, the earth has fallen into a pattern of climate change every 100,000 years– with an ice age followed by a warming period. We are about 10,000 years into the last of these warming periods. During the warming period, the temperature rises by 2-5 degrees. For the temperature to rise again by this amount so shortly into a warming cycle is clear evidence something else is at play. We are talking about the warmest period of the earth in 12 million years, or maybe even in 50 million years (the “climate change” that killed the dinosaurs).</i></p>
<p>Let&#8217;s get a couple other things right:</p>
<p>-The dinosuars died out 65 million years ago, and the extinction is pretty universally agreed to have been the result of a major asteroid impact in what is now the Yucatan Peninsula &#8212; nto climate change.  (We&#8217;re overdue for a massive asteroid impact, given historical trends, but that&#8217;s overdue in a statistical sense, so take it for what you will.)</p>
<p>-Given that we&#8217;re only 10,000 years into the current interglacial period, and we still have lots of glaciers, it&#8217;s possible that we simply haven&#8217;t finished warming yet.</p>
<p>-Within the last few million years, during which the continents have been in pretty much their modern positions, we have had periods in which the earth was warm enough that there were no glaciers at all &#8212; we&#8217;re not there yet by a long shot.</p>
<p>-While many suggested moves towards reducing CO2 emmisions could perhaps be achieved at the cost of 1% of GDP, if you&#8217;re right about the scale of the problem (that it could cause 5% to 20% to mitigate the effects once they take place) then those 1% actions wouldn&#8217;t be nearly enough to stop or even much slow the trend.</p>
<p>-The reason why population control and environmentalism are so often tied is that in the US and Europe, per capita CO2 production has leveled or dropped over the last decade or two.  The problem is that the population here is still rising (unlike Europe) and so our total emmissions are going up.  Without population control we&#8217;d have to take measures that would bring per capita CO2 production down below what China currently has, if not lower.  And so most of the claims that greenhouse gasses would be relatively easy to address are centered around serious attempts at reducing population growth, and eventually shrinking the world population.</p>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22618</link>
		<dc:creator>digbydolben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 14:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22618</guid>
		<description>Gerald Augustinus: I don&#039;t go to many parties, so I don&#039;t know if I&#039;m &quot;fun&quot; at them. And Francis of Assisi seems to me to have been much happier than you, your intellectual &lt;i&gt;confreres&lt;/i&gt; OR Belloc. Chesterton, though, IS another story...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerald Augustinus: I don&#8217;t go to many parties, so I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;m &#8220;fun&#8221; at them. And Francis of Assisi seems to me to have been much happier than you, your intellectual <i>confreres</i> OR Belloc. Chesterton, though, IS another story&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Gerald Augustinus</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22617</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerald Augustinus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 14:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22617</guid>
		<description>Valuing celibacy over the married state is no surprise when sex is viewed as &#039;icky&#039; and a necessary evil. A healthy view of sex - and pleasure - wasn&#039;t exactly a hallmark of Catholicism. Life isn&#039;t &#039;nasty, brutish and short&#039; anymore round here, so the &#039;vale of tears&#039; approach to the world is rather outdated. Digby, you must be fun at parties :P 

Remember Belloc:
Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Valuing celibacy over the married state is no surprise when sex is viewed as &#8216;icky&#8217; and a necessary evil. A healthy view of sex &#8211; and pleasure &#8211; wasn&#8217;t exactly a hallmark of Catholicism. Life isn&#8217;t &#8216;nasty, brutish and short&#8217; anymore round here, so the &#8216;vale of tears&#8217; approach to the world is rather outdated. Digby, you must be fun at parties :P </p>
<p>Remember Belloc:<br />
Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine,<br />
There’s always laughter and good red wine.<br />
At least I’ve always found it so.<br />
Benedicamus Domino!</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Price</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22615</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 13:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22615</guid>
		<description>&quot;Of course, this will not make some American Catholics happy.&quot;

Ready...FIRE!...Aim...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Of course, this will not make some American Catholics happy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ready&#8230;FIRE!&#8230;Aim&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: digbydolben</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22613</link>
		<dc:creator>digbydolben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 13:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22613</guid>
		<description>What I don&#039;t understand about the statements of Iraneus and several others here is why prolific sexual reproduction (in that relatively new Catholic cult of the &quot;family&quot;), globalist-capitalist &quot;development&quot; and the frenzied cultivation of the &quot;free market&quot; have suddenly become objects of such inestimable value as to be considered part of Catholic religious culture.

Isn&#039;t this the same Church that invented MONASTICISM? The same one that historically valued chastity and celibacy over the connubial state? The same one that, with Francis of Assisi consecrated &quot;Holy Poverty&quot;? The same one that promoted fasting and abstinence as the most appropriate way of doing penance? The same one that created Lent as a means of connecting sacramental reality to the reality of SCARCITY in the natural environment? The same one that proclaimed man&#039;s responsibility for STEWARDSHIP over a fallen and wounded and materially impoverished world?

Your heresy is called &quot;Americanism,&quot; Iraneus, and your spurious &quot;Catholicism&quot; is closer to the dubious Christianity of the heretic-Founders of America&#039;s ersatz republic than it is to Francis of Assisi&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I don&#8217;t understand about the statements of Iraneus and several others here is why prolific sexual reproduction (in that relatively new Catholic cult of the &#8220;family&#8221;), globalist-capitalist &#8220;development&#8221; and the frenzied cultivation of the &#8220;free market&#8221; have suddenly become objects of such inestimable value as to be considered part of Catholic religious culture.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t this the same Church that invented MONASTICISM? The same one that historically valued chastity and celibacy over the connubial state? The same one that, with Francis of Assisi consecrated &#8220;Holy Poverty&#8221;? The same one that promoted fasting and abstinence as the most appropriate way of doing penance? The same one that created Lent as a means of connecting sacramental reality to the reality of SCARCITY in the natural environment? The same one that proclaimed man&#8217;s responsibility for STEWARDSHIP over a fallen and wounded and materially impoverished world?</p>
<p>Your heresy is called &#8220;Americanism,&#8221; Iraneus, and your spurious &#8220;Catholicism&#8221; is closer to the dubious Christianity of the heretic-Founders of America&#8217;s ersatz republic than it is to Francis of Assisi&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: TeutonicTim</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/29/bertone-drops-hints-on-new-encylical/#comment-22611</link>
		<dc:creator>TeutonicTim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 12:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2555#comment-22611</guid>
		<description>Seriously - Katrina?

I like how you left out the medieval optimum and little ice age.  Also, how in the world does one capture &quot;global&quot; temperature?  Oops, I forgot that there&#039;s &quot;consensus&quot;.  

Even NASA got caught posting incorrect temperature reports, that once again proved that the 1930&#039;s contain most of the hottest years on record:

1934, 1998, 1921, 2006, 1931, 1999, 1953, 1990, 1938, 1939

So much for the idea that the science is without error...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously &#8211; Katrina?</p>
<p>I like how you left out the medieval optimum and little ice age.  Also, how in the world does one capture &#8220;global&#8221; temperature?  Oops, I forgot that there&#8217;s &#8220;consensus&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Even NASA got caught posting incorrect temperature reports, that once again proved that the 1930&#8217;s contain most of the hottest years on record:</p>
<p>1934, 1998, 1921, 2006, 1931, 1999, 1953, 1990, 1938, 1939</p>
<p>So much for the idea that the science is without error&#8230;</p>
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