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	<title>Comments on: For Those Who Didn&#8217;t Come Home</title>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22515</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 00:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[HA - As M.Z. said, feel free to check out our comment policy. Happy that VN brings you, at least, amusement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA &#8211; As M.Z. said, feel free to check out our comment policy. Happy that VN brings you, at least, amusement.</p>
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		<title>By: HA</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22513</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 00:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I personally approved your comment so the rest of us could have a laugh.&lt;/i&gt;

Thanks, I&#039;m here all week... 

I certainly wouldn’t keep reading here if not for the occasional lol&#039;s this site gives me, so I suppose  it’s only right that I get to reciprocate every now and then. Also, you&#039;re greatly stretching my comment -- i.e., a single inadvertent racist remark does not a racist make, though coming right after you had flagged another remark as racist, it deserves a riposte. But for the record, the tongue was obviously in cheek. As for my claiming that Benedict is a patriot, I’m not really sure where you got that either, but I would refer everyone here to your comments within Feddy’s “God Bless America ” thread to supply any needed context.

Lastly,  now that you mention it,  my second paragraph somehow “disappeared” when I posted it last week on your own thread. Funny how that happens. I guess censorship (not that there’s anything necessarily wrong with that) is a little more problematic depending on who is looking over your shoulder, or maybe the comments all of a sudden became funnier the second time around, but honestly, no hard feelings either way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I personally approved your comment so the rest of us could have a laugh.</i></p>
<p>Thanks, I&#8217;m here all week&#8230; </p>
<p>I certainly wouldn’t keep reading here if not for the occasional lol&#8217;s this site gives me, so I suppose  it’s only right that I get to reciprocate every now and then. Also, you&#8217;re greatly stretching my comment &#8212; i.e., a single inadvertent racist remark does not a racist make, though coming right after you had flagged another remark as racist, it deserves a riposte. But for the record, the tongue was obviously in cheek. As for my claiming that Benedict is a patriot, I’m not really sure where you got that either, but I would refer everyone here to your comments within Feddy’s “God Bless America ” thread to supply any needed context.</p>
<p>Lastly,  now that you mention it,  my second paragraph somehow “disappeared” when I posted it last week on your own thread. Funny how that happens. I guess censorship (not that there’s anything necessarily wrong with that) is a little more problematic depending on who is looking over your shoulder, or maybe the comments all of a sudden became funnier the second time around, but honestly, no hard feelings either way.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22460</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 04:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;Nice to know that there is censorship on a Catholic blog that is supposed to espouse open thought.&lt;/I&gt;

Open thought, yes. Being a jerk, no.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Nice to know that there is censorship on a Catholic blog that is supposed to espouse open thought.</i></p>
<p>Open thought, yes. Being a jerk, no.</p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22456</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M.Z. Forrest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22456</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wasn&#039;t aware that censorship was wrong.  Feel free to see the &lt;a href=&quot;http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/03/comments/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comment policy&lt;/a&gt;.  Your IP address hasn&#039;t registered a previous comment.  The proper venue to address administration issues is via &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:voxnovablog@gmail.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;email&lt;/a&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t aware that censorship was wrong.  Feel free to see the <a href="http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/03/comments/" rel="nofollow">comment policy</a>.  Your IP address hasn&#8217;t registered a previous comment.  The proper venue to address administration issues is via <a href="mailto:voxnovablog@gmail.com" rel="nofollow">email</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: CatholicCrusader</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22454</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[CatholicCrusader]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice to know that there is censorship on a Catholic blog that is supposed to espouse open thought.  Apparently the contributors here can&#039;t take their own comments?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice to know that there is censorship on a Catholic blog that is supposed to espouse open thought.  Apparently the contributors here can&#8217;t take their own comments?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22448</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[HA - As you probably know, you have been assigned to &quot;moderation,&quot; but I personally approved your comment so the rest of us could have a laugh. According to you, Benedict is an american patriot, and I am a racist drug user. Amazing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA &#8211; As you probably know, you have been assigned to &#8220;moderation,&#8221; but I personally approved your comment so the rest of us could have a laugh. According to you, Benedict is an american patriot, and I am a racist drug user. Amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: HA</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael is apparently still angry that Pope Benedict missed his &lt;a href=&quot;http://vox-nova.com/2008/03/08/letter-urges-pope-to-protest-war-during-us-visit/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;“beautiful, hopeful” &lt;/a&gt; opportunity to smack down Bush, and instead, left us with that blast of “God Bless America ” ringing and ringing and ringing in our ears.

Michael, the next time you curl up with some native feminist liberation theology, I’d chase it down with a dose of some sustainably and locally grown fair-trade chamomile, instead of whatever other “herb” you might be in the habit of relaxing with, if you know what I mean. It might help you ratchet down the paranoia. You might also try anthologizing for us all your &lt;a href=&quot;http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/20/rethinking-the-givenness-of-the-united-states/#comment-21955&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;racist assumptions &lt;/a&gt; about Neanderthals and any other indigenous peoples you deem deficient. That way, the next time you presume to lecture others about racism by displaying your own, the irony will be even more delicious.

Finally, I’d save your hectoring of Bishop Sheen for later. Don’t get me wrong, it’s pure comedy gold, but for that very reason you should wait until a few weeks before Catholic blogging nominations go out. I&#039;m telling you: ka-CHING!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael is apparently still angry that Pope Benedict missed his <a href="http://vox-nova.com/2008/03/08/letter-urges-pope-to-protest-war-during-us-visit/" rel="nofollow">“beautiful, hopeful” </a> opportunity to smack down Bush, and instead, left us with that blast of “God Bless America ” ringing and ringing and ringing in our ears.</p>
<p>Michael, the next time you curl up with some native feminist liberation theology, I’d chase it down with a dose of some sustainably and locally grown fair-trade chamomile, instead of whatever other “herb” you might be in the habit of relaxing with, if you know what I mean. It might help you ratchet down the paranoia. You might also try anthologizing for us all your <a href="http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/20/rethinking-the-givenness-of-the-united-states/#comment-21955" rel="nofollow">racist assumptions </a> about Neanderthals and any other indigenous peoples you deem deficient. That way, the next time you presume to lecture others about racism by displaying your own, the irony will be even more delicious.</p>
<p>Finally, I’d save your hectoring of Bishop Sheen for later. Don’t get me wrong, it’s pure comedy gold, but for that very reason you should wait until a few weeks before Catholic blogging nominations go out. I&#8217;m telling you: ka-CHING!</p>
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		<title>By: TeutonicTim</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22437</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TeutonicTim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course Michael J. is more qualified than General Petreus to discern the best way to protect the people of Iraq and transition the responsible ones into self sustaining power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course Michael J. is more qualified than General Petreus to discern the best way to protect the people of Iraq and transition the responsible ones into self sustaining power.</p>
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		<title>By: DarwinCatholic</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22436</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DarwinCatholic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay, I&#039;m trying to understand the above exchange:

&lt;i&gt;Christopher Says:
May 27, 2008 at 8:51 am 
...
I happen to support our troops where in fact they are bringing peace and restoring a sense of order and security, as they are presently doing in joint cooperation with the Iraqi police / army and the Sahwah Al Anbar. Iraq can scarcely move forward if its citizens are living under the perpetual threat of kidnappings and beheadings.

I have little doubt that their joint presence in Iraq at this moment in time is preferable to that of Al Qaeda.

Morning&#039;s Minion Says:
May 27, 2008 at 10:29 am

Funny, Christopher, that the majority of Iraqis don’t see it that way. Are you claiming to know more than they do?&lt;/i&gt;

Now, first of all, MM seems to be saying that the majority of Iraqis either are not &quot;bringing peace and restoring a sense of order and security&quot; or that the majority of Iraqis believe that Iraq &lt;i&gt;can&lt;/i&gt; &quot;move forward if its citizens are living under the perpetual threat of kidnappings and beheadings&quot; or that the majority of Iraqis do not believe that &quot;their joint presence in Iraq at this moment in time is preferable to that of Al Qaeda&quot;.

Now, what MM basis this claim as to the beliefs of the majority of Iraqis on, I&#039;m not sure.

One thing he is not basing his assessment on is the BBC&#039;s March 2008 survey of Iraqi public opinion:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/14_03_08iraqpollmarch2008.pdf

This shows that currently Iraqi opinion is evenly split over the question of whether it was good or bad that the US invaded Iraq:

&lt;i&gt;Q8. From today’s perspective and all things considered, was it absolutely right, somewhat right, somewhat wrong, or absolutely wrong that US-led coalition forces invaded Iraq in spring 2003?
Mar08
Absolutely Right 21%
Somewhat Right 28%
Somewhat Wrong 23%
Absolutely Wrong 27%&lt;/i&gt;

It also contains some interestingly contradictory findings, such as that a majority (53% -- see Q21) say that the US surge has made security worse, and yet a larger majority (63% -- see Q22) say that they would like US forces to remain until the situation is more stable, or even longer.

Also, by margins of 70-80% Iraqis said that US forces _should be involved in a laundry list of items including (see Q34) training the Iraqi army, providing financial aid, and engaging in operations against al Qaeda and other foreign jihadists.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I&#8217;m trying to understand the above exchange:</p>
<p><i>Christopher Says:<br />
May 27, 2008 at 8:51 am<br />
&#8230;<br />
I happen to support our troops where in fact they are bringing peace and restoring a sense of order and security, as they are presently doing in joint cooperation with the Iraqi police / army and the Sahwah Al Anbar. Iraq can scarcely move forward if its citizens are living under the perpetual threat of kidnappings and beheadings.</p>
<p>I have little doubt that their joint presence in Iraq at this moment in time is preferable to that of Al Qaeda.</p>
<p>Morning&#8217;s Minion Says:<br />
May 27, 2008 at 10:29 am</p>
<p>Funny, Christopher, that the majority of Iraqis don’t see it that way. Are you claiming to know more than they do?</i></p>
<p>Now, first of all, MM seems to be saying that the majority of Iraqis either are not &#8220;bringing peace and restoring a sense of order and security&#8221; or that the majority of Iraqis believe that Iraq <i>can</i> &#8220;move forward if its citizens are living under the perpetual threat of kidnappings and beheadings&#8221; or that the majority of Iraqis do not believe that &#8220;their joint presence in Iraq at this moment in time is preferable to that of Al Qaeda&#8221;.</p>
<p>Now, what MM basis this claim as to the beliefs of the majority of Iraqis on, I&#8217;m not sure.</p>
<p>One thing he is not basing his assessment on is the BBC&#8217;s March 2008 survey of Iraqi public opinion:</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/14_03_08iraqpollmarch2008.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/14_03_08iraqpollmarch2008.pdf</a></p>
<p>This shows that currently Iraqi opinion is evenly split over the question of whether it was good or bad that the US invaded Iraq:</p>
<p><i>Q8. From today’s perspective and all things considered, was it absolutely right, somewhat right, somewhat wrong, or absolutely wrong that US-led coalition forces invaded Iraq in spring 2003?<br />
Mar08<br />
Absolutely Right 21%<br />
Somewhat Right 28%<br />
Somewhat Wrong 23%<br />
Absolutely Wrong 27%</i></p>
<p>It also contains some interestingly contradictory findings, such as that a majority (53% &#8212; see Q21) say that the US surge has made security worse, and yet a larger majority (63% &#8212; see Q22) say that they would like US forces to remain until the situation is more stable, or even longer.</p>
<p>Also, by margins of 70-80% Iraqis said that US forces _should be involved in a laundry list of items including (see Q34) training the Iraqi army, providing financial aid, and engaging in operations against al Qaeda and other foreign jihadists.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael J. Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22431</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael J. Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 22:07:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;But then, like the Bishops, I don’t have specific competence in political, economic or military strategies, so I’ll leave it up to General Petreus and Congress to determine when best to determine said “responsible transition.”&lt;/I&gt;

This smacks of the old sacred-secular division of labor that so many have critiqued.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But then, like the Bishops, I don’t have specific competence in political, economic or military strategies, so I’ll leave it up to General Petreus and Congress to determine when best to determine said “responsible transition.”</i></p>
<p>This smacks of the old sacred-secular division of labor that so many have critiqued.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22427</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christopher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 21:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Judging by the reports and the continued presence of Al Qaeda -- and the general fate that Iraqi citizens typically meet when AQ dominates a particular neighborhood (ex. Anbar Province prior to 2006, as compared to the present) -- it seems to me that a military presence is needed (temporarily, I should clarify) to foster a &#039;responsible transition&#039; and withdrawal at the earliest opportunity consistent with that goal.&quot; 

But then, like the Bishops, &lt;i&gt;I don&#039;t have specific competence in political, economic or military strategies&lt;/i&gt;, so I&#039;ll leave it up to General Petreus and Congress to determine when best to determine said &quot;responsible transition.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judging by the reports and the continued presence of Al Qaeda &#8212; and the general fate that Iraqi citizens typically meet when AQ dominates a particular neighborhood (ex. Anbar Province prior to 2006, as compared to the present) &#8212; it seems to me that a military presence is needed (temporarily, I should clarify) to foster a &#8216;responsible transition&#8217; and withdrawal at the earliest opportunity consistent with that goal.&#8221; </p>
<p>But then, like the Bishops, <i>I don&#8217;t have specific competence in political, economic or military strategies</i>, so I&#8217;ll leave it up to General Petreus and Congress to determine when best to determine said &#8220;responsible transition.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Iafrate</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/26/for-those-who-didnt-come-home/#comment-22422</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Iafrate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 21:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2539#comment-22422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;I&gt;I fully agree with the bishops’ recommendations.&lt;/I&gt;

Too bad you didn&#039;t agree with their recommendations from the start, or else this mess would not have happened. 

And &#039;ahem,&#039; there is nothing in the text that says a u.s. military presence is needed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I fully agree with the bishops’ recommendations.</i></p>
<p>Too bad you didn&#8217;t agree with their recommendations from the start, or else this mess would not have happened. </p>
<p>And &#8216;ahem,&#8217; there is nothing in the text that says a u.s. military presence is needed.</p>
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