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	<title>Comments on: Archbishop Chaput on Catholics and Obama</title>
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	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Tienne McKenzie</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tienne McKenzie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 16:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nick and HA:

I&#039;m late to respond and apologize for that, but wanted to at least put out there in writing (again) that I don&#039;t intend to blindly vote for anyone, Democrat or otherwise. As the Bishops have said in their &quot;Guide to Faithful Citizenship&quot;: 

&lt;i&gt;As Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate&#039;s position on a single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter&#039;s support. Yet a candidate&#039;s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support.&lt;/i&gt;

Those who vote unhesitatingly for pro-life candidates without considering the spectrum of other issues involved are going against the Bishops recommendation to eschew single-issue voting. You can ascribe whatever motivations you like to my thoughts here, but the fact remains: &lt;b&gt;Each of us ought to put real thought into our decision of which candidates to support.&lt;/b&gt; My admission that I have not yet come to a conclusion on the Senate race in Colorado is not evasion. It is indication that I am taking this seriously and do not intend to merely vote on party lines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick and HA:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m late to respond and apologize for that, but wanted to at least put out there in writing (again) that I don&#8217;t intend to blindly vote for anyone, Democrat or otherwise. As the Bishops have said in their &#8220;Guide to Faithful Citizenship&#8221;: </p>
<p><i>As Catholics we are not single-issue voters. A candidate&#8217;s position on a single issue is not sufficient to guarantee a voter&#8217;s support. Yet a candidate&#8217;s position on a single issue that involves an intrinsic evil, such as support for legal abortion or the promotion of racism, may legitimately lead a voter to disqualify a candidate from receiving support.</i></p>
<p>Those who vote unhesitatingly for pro-life candidates without considering the spectrum of other issues involved are going against the Bishops recommendation to eschew single-issue voting. You can ascribe whatever motivations you like to my thoughts here, but the fact remains: <b>Each of us ought to put real thought into our decision of which candidates to support.</b> My admission that I have not yet come to a conclusion on the Senate race in Colorado is not evasion. It is indication that I am taking this seriously and do not intend to merely vote on party lines.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Hunt</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22071</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Hunt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 12:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22071</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is my first time on this web site, and I appreciate the mostly intelligent and respectful comments.  

First of all, obviously this is a complicated issue, and there never been a true Catholic candidate - one who consistently supports the whole range of Catholic concerns in domestic and foreign policy.  That, likely, is a pipe dream.

Having said that, I won&#039;t be voting for Obama.  I simply cannot vote for someone who openly advocates, not just &quot;abortion rights,&quot; but an ideology about abortion that simply destroys any respect or recognition toward life in the womb at all, and stretches that disrespect even to life outside the womb.  There is already a huge push to take away any and all state restrictions on abortion.  As president, Obama would support that.  Obama would make abortions on military bases legal.  His opposition to the Born Alive Act in Illinois is especially ominous: Obama would allow clinic staff to refuse to provide medical care to children who survive abortion.  These are children born alive - persons by anyone&#039;s constitutional interpretation.  So, Obama would stretch further the definition of non-person who does not merit constitutional protection.   

To be sure, there are other issues with which I disagree with Sen. Obama.  But there are what I call qualifying issues.  Abortion is one of those qualifying issues.  If someone supports the willful destruction of innocent human life, they don&#039;t get my vote.  Just as someone supporting some form of legal slave trade would not get my vote (don&#039;t laugh - estimates are that some 14,000 slaves are transported into the U. S. every year, and no politician has much to say about it - the day is likely to come when someone will push for some form of legal recognition of this trade, employing the same kind of euphemisms and fatalistic arguments the pro-abortion movement does).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my first time on this web site, and I appreciate the mostly intelligent and respectful comments.  </p>
<p>First of all, obviously this is a complicated issue, and there never been a true Catholic candidate &#8211; one who consistently supports the whole range of Catholic concerns in domestic and foreign policy.  That, likely, is a pipe dream.</p>
<p>Having said that, I won&#8217;t be voting for Obama.  I simply cannot vote for someone who openly advocates, not just &#8220;abortion rights,&#8221; but an ideology about abortion that simply destroys any respect or recognition toward life in the womb at all, and stretches that disrespect even to life outside the womb.  There is already a huge push to take away any and all state restrictions on abortion.  As president, Obama would support that.  Obama would make abortions on military bases legal.  His opposition to the Born Alive Act in Illinois is especially ominous: Obama would allow clinic staff to refuse to provide medical care to children who survive abortion.  These are children born alive &#8211; persons by anyone&#8217;s constitutional interpretation.  So, Obama would stretch further the definition of non-person who does not merit constitutional protection.   </p>
<p>To be sure, there are other issues with which I disagree with Sen. Obama.  But there are what I call qualifying issues.  Abortion is one of those qualifying issues.  If someone supports the willful destruction of innocent human life, they don&#8217;t get my vote.  Just as someone supporting some form of legal slave trade would not get my vote (don&#8217;t laugh &#8211; estimates are that some 14,000 slaves are transported into the U. S. every year, and no politician has much to say about it &#8211; the day is likely to come when someone will push for some form of legal recognition of this trade, employing the same kind of euphemisms and fatalistic arguments the pro-abortion movement does).</p>
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		<title>By: Zippy</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22068</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zippy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 04:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22068</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It may be worth pointing out that, should Obama be elected President, it is a virtual certainty that more particular actual abortions will be authorized directly by his personal executive orders than acts of waterboarding were authorized by President Bush.

I&#039;m just saying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be worth pointing out that, should Obama be elected President, it is a virtual certainty that more particular actual abortions will be authorized directly by his personal executive orders than acts of waterboarding were authorized by President Bush.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Zippy</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22067</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zippy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 04:27:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Upon meeting the unborn in the next life, it would be patently obvious that Obama’s link to their fate was remote indeed, no matter the offensive rhetoric.&lt;/i&gt;

What about when Obama signs the executive order making it legal to perform abortions on US military bases on foreign soil, where it is now illegal under an executive order signed by Bush?  What about when the Obama voter meets, in the next life,  with the actual persons who are actually aborted on those military bases?  Are they going to agree that Obama&#039;s link to their fate was remote?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Upon meeting the unborn in the next life, it would be patently obvious that Obama’s link to their fate was remote indeed, no matter the offensive rhetoric.</i></p>
<p>What about when Obama signs the executive order making it legal to perform abortions on US military bases on foreign soil, where it is now illegal under an executive order signed by Bush?  What about when the Obama voter meets, in the next life,  with the actual persons who are actually aborted on those military bases?  Are they going to agree that Obama&#8217;s link to their fate was remote?</p>
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		<title>By: HA</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22063</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 02:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22063</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s a recap, for those keeping score: 

Ben asks Tienne a simple, direct question, &lt;/a&gt; and given that a simple direct, answer would expose &lt;a href=&quot;http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22014&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;her initial arguments &lt;/a&gt; as hollow rationalizations, she attempts to &lt;a href=&quot;http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22052&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; evade, sidetrack and otherwise squirm out of responding.&lt;/a&gt;

And fails miserably.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a recap, for those keeping score: </p>
<p>Ben asks Tienne a simple, direct question,  and given that a simple direct, answer would expose <a href="http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22014" rel="nofollow">her initial arguments </a> as hollow rationalizations, she attempts to <a href="http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22052" rel="nofollow"> evade, sidetrack and otherwise squirm out of responding.</a></p>
<p>And fails miserably.</p>
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		<title>By: jh</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22060</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 02:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22060</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(and that includes many, if not most, Republicans who pretend to, by the way). 

Names plaese
No doubt there are some Republican that fit discription But can name some names fo so called anti abortion folks that are really not or not in effect really care. Surely we can come up with a list since this charge is lobbed about wvery other day

In the end what the Church has always said as well as some of it notable Saints. we have seen. As long as their slaughter of the unborn there will be no Justice and will be no Peace]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(and that includes many, if not most, Republicans who pretend to, by the way). </p>
<p>Names plaese<br />
No doubt there are some Republican that fit discription But can name some names fo so called anti abortion folks that are really not or not in effect really care. Surely we can come up with a list since this charge is lobbed about wvery other day</p>
<p>In the end what the Church has always said as well as some of it notable Saints. we have seen. As long as their slaughter of the unborn there will be no Justice and will be no Peace</p>
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		<title>By: Morning's Minion</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22058</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morning's Minion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 01:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22058</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chaput makes a valid point. While it is certainly licit in Catholic moral teaching to believe that abortion need not be criminalized (I don&#039;t believe it was ever treated on par with homocide in any legal code), this should not be an excuse to do absolutely nothing about abortion. Chaput is right-- many, even most, politicians could not care less about the unborn (and that includes many, if not most, Republicans who pretend to, by the way). 

But Chaput pushes too far when he makes the link to voting. By all means, we should be working on all elected representatives to take abortion more seriously. If they want to keep it legal, they should at least be promoting measures to reduce its incidence. But here, again, Chaput is too categorical. Yes, he points to the staggering number of abortions each year, but he fails to note that the steepest decline took place over the Clinton years, and it would be difficult not to see some link to the state of the economy, and to the noted reduction in poverty and inequality at that time. 

And I think his test is quite easy to meet. Upon meeting the unborn in the next life, it would be patently obvious that Obama&#039;s link to their fate was remote indeed, no matter the offensive rhetoric. But there are so many other issues. As one example: I would like to the Bush-McCain voter how he would deal with the countless victims of cluster bombs when a ban was opposed by Bush, McCain, and Hillary Clinton-- and supported by Pope Benedict and Obama. I would ask him how he would address the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, following the actions of a so-called pro-life president. What would the answer be? Sorry, but your death was a price to pay for reducing a million abortions a year, even though we didn&#039;t do that at all, and probably never will using these tactics-- how would that pan out? The archbishop is right about one thing-- our daily choices have serious moral implications that we often don&#039;t think about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chaput makes a valid point. While it is certainly licit in Catholic moral teaching to believe that abortion need not be criminalized (I don&#8217;t believe it was ever treated on par with homocide in any legal code), this should not be an excuse to do absolutely nothing about abortion. Chaput is right&#8211; many, even most, politicians could not care less about the unborn (and that includes many, if not most, Republicans who pretend to, by the way). </p>
<p>But Chaput pushes too far when he makes the link to voting. By all means, we should be working on all elected representatives to take abortion more seriously. If they want to keep it legal, they should at least be promoting measures to reduce its incidence. But here, again, Chaput is too categorical. Yes, he points to the staggering number of abortions each year, but he fails to note that the steepest decline took place over the Clinton years, and it would be difficult not to see some link to the state of the economy, and to the noted reduction in poverty and inequality at that time. </p>
<p>And I think his test is quite easy to meet. Upon meeting the unborn in the next life, it would be patently obvious that Obama&#8217;s link to their fate was remote indeed, no matter the offensive rhetoric. But there are so many other issues. As one example: I would like to the Bush-McCain voter how he would deal with the countless victims of cluster bombs when a ban was opposed by Bush, McCain, and Hillary Clinton&#8211; and supported by Pope Benedict and Obama. I would ask him how he would address the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi dead, following the actions of a so-called pro-life president. What would the answer be? Sorry, but your death was a price to pay for reducing a million abortions a year, even though we didn&#8217;t do that at all, and probably never will using these tactics&#8211; how would that pan out? The archbishop is right about one thing&#8211; our daily choices have serious moral implications that we often don&#8217;t think about.</p>
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		<title>By: jh</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22057</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 01:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Archbishop Chaput’s comments are very powerful.

Does this mean he is voting for McCain?

I hope not. It would severely damage the credibility of his position.

Nothing he said above suggests that Catholics should vote for McCain.&quot;

I suspect he will not tell us who he is going to vote for. TO be honest JOhn McCain has been the leading force for the Catholic Social Justice issue of the last decade that being Immigration reform. He has been asking tough questions on GITMO and Torture. He has taken so many stands that have gotten him into trouble and gets no credit for it.

I sweat we could put Sam Brownback up there and it will be the same  song and dance. I am not honestly buying it anymore, THe fact that those that are trying to fit a camel through the eye of the needle to supporet Obama by coming up with the same so called reasons we hear every election cycle. Despite the fact that you have someone that has been open to many ssues that fit the Catholic SOcial Justice ethic and in fact took political risk to himself to do it

We have in this race one of the most Pro- CHoice politicians ever.  Many Pro-life Republicans saw that threat with RUDY and worked to defeated him. IF the majority of Catholics vote for Obama then I am afraid the pro-life forces on the Republcian side will be weakened.

PErhaps that is what people want]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Archbishop Chaput’s comments are very powerful.</p>
<p>Does this mean he is voting for McCain?</p>
<p>I hope not. It would severely damage the credibility of his position.</p>
<p>Nothing he said above suggests that Catholics should vote for McCain.&#8221;</p>
<p>I suspect he will not tell us who he is going to vote for. TO be honest JOhn McCain has been the leading force for the Catholic Social Justice issue of the last decade that being Immigration reform. He has been asking tough questions on GITMO and Torture. He has taken so many stands that have gotten him into trouble and gets no credit for it.</p>
<p>I sweat we could put Sam Brownback up there and it will be the same  song and dance. I am not honestly buying it anymore, THe fact that those that are trying to fit a camel through the eye of the needle to supporet Obama by coming up with the same so called reasons we hear every election cycle. Despite the fact that you have someone that has been open to many ssues that fit the Catholic SOcial Justice ethic and in fact took political risk to himself to do it</p>
<p>We have in this race one of the most Pro- CHoice politicians ever.  Many Pro-life Republicans saw that threat with RUDY and worked to defeated him. IF the majority of Catholics vote for Obama then I am afraid the pro-life forces on the Republcian side will be weakened.</p>
<p>PErhaps that is what people want</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22055</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 01:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tienne, your arguments are hideous.  You cannot be a servant to two masters; you&#039;ll either love the one and despise the other.  Make up your mind carefully as the very salvation of your immortal soul is at risk.   What does it profit a man to vote blindly for Democrat candidates and lose his immortal soul?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tienne, your arguments are hideous.  You cannot be a servant to two masters; you&#8217;ll either love the one and despise the other.  Make up your mind carefully as the very salvation of your immortal soul is at risk.   What does it profit a man to vote blindly for Democrat candidates and lose his immortal soul?</p>
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		<title>By: G Alkon</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22054</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[G Alkon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 00:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22054</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Archbishop Chaput&#039;s comments are very powerful.

Does this mean he is voting for McCain?

I hope not.  It would severely damage the credibility of his position.

Nothing he said above suggests that Catholics should vote for McCain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Archbishop Chaput&#8217;s comments are very powerful.</p>
<p>Does this mean he is voting for McCain?</p>
<p>I hope not.  It would severely damage the credibility of his position.</p>
<p>Nothing he said above suggests that Catholics should vote for McCain.</p>
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		<title>By: jh</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22053</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 00:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22053</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Abortion is no more “murder” than capital punishment or killing in battle is. Which is not to say that it is not–like those two others–USUALLY a grievous moral evil.
However, “murder” in civil law is the unlawful killing, for private motives, of a fellow human being. A foetus is not, by law, a fellow citizen or a person, and, therefore, killing it is not “murder.”
Get a zygote declared a human person or a citizen, and then it will be.&quot;

This is not Catholci Doctrine. Also Suprise the Federal Govt has little to do with State execution. People can ban 95 percent of executuons through the states. People who are fighting for the unborn do not have that option right now]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Abortion is no more “murder” than capital punishment or killing in battle is. Which is not to say that it is not–like those two others–USUALLY a grievous moral evil.<br />
However, “murder” in civil law is the unlawful killing, for private motives, of a fellow human being. A foetus is not, by law, a fellow citizen or a person, and, therefore, killing it is not “murder.”<br />
Get a zygote declared a human person or a citizen, and then it will be.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not Catholci Doctrine. Also Suprise the Federal Govt has little to do with State execution. People can ban 95 percent of executuons through the states. People who are fighting for the unborn do not have that option right now</p>
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		<title>By: Tienne McKenzie</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/05/21/archbishop-chaput-on-catholics-and-obama/#comment-22052</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tienne McKenzie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 23:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2519#comment-22052</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not going to discount someone because of their pro-choice opinion any more than I&#039;m going to elect someone solely on the basis of their good record against abortion. Yes, unequivocally, pro-life concerns trump all others. Pro-life meaning, of course, ALL life issues. Not just abortion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not going to discount someone because of their pro-choice opinion any more than I&#8217;m going to elect someone solely on the basis of their good record against abortion. Yes, unequivocally, pro-life concerns trump all others. Pro-life meaning, of course, ALL life issues. Not just abortion.</p>
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