“Que Dios bendiga a España. Que Dios bendiga a todos los españoles con la concordia y la comprensión mutuas, con la prosperidad y la paz.” – Pope John Paul II, Madrid, Spain (1982)
“God bless Canada!” – Pope John Paul II, Address to Governor General of Canada (1986)
“¡Que Dios bendiga a Venezuela!” – Pope John Paul II, Caracas, Venezuela (1996)
“¡Nicaragua! ¡Nicaragua de María! ¡Que la Purísima te proteja! ¡Que Dios te bendiga!” – Pope John Paul II, Managua International Airport, Nicaragua (2005)
“¡Dios bendiga a Cuba y a su pueblo!” Tarcisio Cardinal Bertone, Havana, Cuba (2008)
“God bless America!” – Pope Benedict XVI, The White House, (2008)
No, no, no, no. God damn America!
I don’t think Pope Benedict meant it differently yesterday than for the other nations. Good try, Poli.
Did anyone hear Mr. Bush’s Litany to America in his introduction today?
So touching. I almost cried. He interwined freedom, terrorists and violence so well.
How about God Bless Policratus & Katerina?
It was a stirring ceremony. I hope to rewatch it again. I do wish the media would try to refrain from talking everytime there is a pause.
I thought e President sppech was good and Pop’s excellent.
I am anxious to get to the tonights event where the Pope talks to the American Bishops. I wonder if there is going to be some unexpected news there
I thought the Pope’s speech was very good, but was really hoping that he would gently point out the number one issue of our time. Not terrorism, the housing crash, Iraq or the economy, but rather Global Warming. I know that if we really work together, we can get our carbon footprint down…
Context should always be understood when one says “God bless” or “God damn” America. And — as Balthasar makes it clear — to accept grace, one must be judged and condemned. The two go together, and are not apart. But the way we say God bless or God damn often will be; when someone does a post out of nowhere which shows the flag in says “God bless America,” and is asked for what blessing and for what purpose such a post is — they will reveal it wasn’t for a blessing after all, but to see people’s reactions. When a preacher says “God damn America” reflecting upon abuse after abuse, they are calling for judgment which leads to reform. When the Pope says God bless America, the context is also clear: it is not a challenge seeking a response, it is rather a priestly blessing for the people within, and therefore, a true desire for blessing (which, again, if read in the context of his message, includes a judgment of relativism which the Pope, in other places, has said is the basis of modern democracy; it is for this reason he reminds us of an absolute beyond the political process of human rights with human responsibilities). So God Bless America –three words, but they don’t always mean the same thing every time they are said.
In a world full of calm and self reflective people, I would like to imagine that the Pope’s words you qoute qould put an end to the idea that “God bless America” used in a context that clearly has patriotic potential (the White House lawn) is not necessarily nationalistic nor somehow excluding a desire that God bless others as well.
Sadly, we live in the real world, where most people are neither calm nor self reflective, so I imagine that most people will continue to think about this as about everything else whatever they thought before.
Another interesting passage of Benedict XVI’s address was when he said, “Freedom is not only a gift, but also a summons to personal responsibility. Americans know this from experience — almost every town in this country has its monuments honoring those who sacrificed their lives in defense of freedom, both at home and abroad.”
I imagine that if that same thing was said by a conservative writer, it would be attacked on sight by some authors. Perhaps Benedict’s choice to express himself in this way will open their minds to the idea that such words are not necessarily nationalistic, militaristic or stemming from a false idea of freedom. On the other hand, perhaps not.
Actually, Darwin, it’s very clear personal rights means responsibility and it is that responsibility which includes the FULL culture of life, not a cafeteria lifer. And it includes the ways nations interact with another for the benefit of another through peaceful means, not through violence for the sake of empire (New American Century’s vision, for example).
“Freedom is not only a gift, but a summons to personal responsibilty.”
Definitely, a call to personal reflection and penance to the one man who does not know this at all, who exploits patriotism and collapses it into a blood and oil hungry international military adventure, ornamented with torture, lies, suspension of habeas corpus and still little understood series of other dastardly deeds.
Henry,
I think you missed Darwin’s point. The Holy Father seems to be holding up American veterans of foreign wars as examples of those who have understood and undertaken the responsibilities which are consequent upon freedom. I don’t know how else one would interpret “its monuments honoring those who sacrificed their lives in defense of freedom, both at home and abroad.” The Pope is obviously not giving blanket approval for all American military interventions (we all know his stance on the current war, a stance which I myself share), but he seems to imply that it can, under certain circumstances, be honorable and good to lay down one’s life in defense of freedom.
Matthew
I was only replying to Darwin from his own words; of course the Pope looks to WWII and is not an absolute pacifist (neither am I); on the other hand, my point was that the Pope’s words (as quoted by Darwin) goes much further than what he said and is about responsibility, especially for working for justice and peace in the world.
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What I had intended to draw out is that Benedict XVI pretty clearly said that at times it is necessary for freedom to be defended by force of arms.
Unless my memory has become very faulty, it has been claimed by some authors here (though not, as I recall, by Henry) that war can never to used to protect freedom, because freedom can only be achieved through peace. While I think that those who forever foreswear arms make an important sacrifice (as do those for make vows of poverty or celibacy or obedience), it strikes me as wrong to claim that freedom never requires war to defend it. (Given that few US war memorials are only to WW2, I’m not sure where Henry’s comment in that regard is going.
One might also ask whether Benedict’s comments were in line with the same spirit expressed by those who suggest that the military chapliancy is an abomination, or that those in the military should be routinely excluded from communion.
Henry,
“my point was that the Pope’s words (as quoted by Darwin) goes much further than what he said and is about responsibility, especially for working for justice and peace in the world.”
But Darwin doesn’t seem to beyond what the Pope said. Rather, you seem to go far beyond what Darwin actually said. Darwin said that the Popes words would seem to challenge those on this blog who think that such discourse (laying down our lives in military combat in defense of the freedom enshrined in our nation’s founding documents) is necessarily nationalistic and militaristic. He said absolutely nothing which would make your protests regarding cafeteria pro-lifers and the Project for the New American Century relevant to his actual post.
Matthew
What happens on this blog is a discussion of how some militaristic tendencies in American society definately demonstrate the nationalism. The quote which was given was about the need to go out into the world with a responsibility to work for human rights; however when one thinks this only in militaristic terms, then something is wrong. Darwin tried to suggest that only “conservatives” were interested in responsibility in the world, when actually, the whole point of those indicating the need for peace making has all been about such responsibility following several Popes who have said as much.
In any case, God Bless Pope Bendict XVI, keep him safe, and grant him success in his mission to the USA.
Henry,
“Darwin tried to suggest that only “conservatives” were interested in responsibility in the world”
Where did Darwin suggest this?
“I imagine that if that same thing was said by a conservative writer, it would be attacked on sight by some authors.” That was suggesting non-conservatives look for ways to attack responsibility in the world. Not so.
Henry,
First of all, this could only be construed in such a way if you interpret “some writers” to mean all non-conservatives. Such a reading goes far beyond what is warranted by the actual post. The reference seems to be to some writers at Vox Nova, not to all non-conservatives. Moreover, the point of the post wasn’t to imply that these contributers to Vox Nova are attacking our necessary responsibilities in the world. Rather, it is pointing out that a certain kind of discourse (i.e., ‘God bless America’ and ‘Fighting for freedom…’) is, contra these contributers, not necessarily nationalistic and militaristic. If you want to argue that the latter is a distortion of the viewpoint of these contributers, that would at least be an objection to what Darwin was actually saying, rather than being a mischaracterization of what he is saying. That said, I’m not saying this mischaracterization was deliberate or vicious, only that you have gone beyond what Darwin is actually saying.
In any case, God Bless Pope Bendict XVI, keep him safe, and grant him success in his mission to the USA.
Amen!
Perhaps for the sake of peace on the Pope’s birthday we can shift back into admiring this singular event of his visit.
Hey Poli,
Sorry to spam your post, but I have no other way to ask – have you thought anymore about posting your detailed thoughts on Michael Novak’s Spirit of Democratic Capitalism? A while back we had a conversation and you convinced me to read and buy the book, which I have recently done.
I was hoping to continue the conversation with you if you were still interested; after reading the book I would like to hear your criticisms. I’m posting some selections from it along with my simplistic commentary over on my blog, http://civicsgeeks.blogspot.com – if you get a chance check it out, I’d be interested to hear what you think.
Thanks!
Que Dios bendiga a todos los que leen y entienden Espanol, porque sin esa abilidad no pueden apreciar esta pieza.
Sorry I forgot this is America, and we don’t speak no Mexican around here. I’ll go back to where I came from…
Zach,
I’m glad you got and read the book! I would like very much to discuss it either here or at Civics Geeks. Can you give me a few more weeks? I am currently in term paper mode and will be until the first week of May. Once my semester is over, I’ll time to return to Novak more thoughtfully.
Heyo
Definitely – I ought to be working on a close-of-semester project of my own.
Good luck with the end of the semester.
Out of Poli’s list, I choose #2.
Poli, Zach,
I have intended to work through Novak’s book as well… maybe our readings will correspond? Just finished a paper/seminar presentation on Appalachian studies and post/de-colonial theology. Whew. I’m throwing a few back tonight w/ some live bluegrass music. Writing takes a lot out of me.
MI,
Sounds good. I think we can have a fruitful conversation.
Br. Matthew,
Thank you.
Henry,
Indeed, I did not mean to suggest that non-conservatives to not appreciate the value of work for others, peace, self sacrifice, etc. Far from it. I am convinced that many non-conservatives are indeed passionately interested in responsibility in the world.
All I would like to point out, and is sometimes too seldom acknowledge in these pages, is that an appreciation for the service of military personnel, and a belief that their sacrifices serve to protect freedom, is not necessarily an expression of militarism and nationalism.
And let’s be honest, if Donald McClarey or I had said exactly the same words of the pope’s that I quoted, we would have been jumped all over and told we had no appreciation for a true Catholic understanding of freedom.
I’m not trying to score points again non-conservatives. I’m simply asking that perhaps next time a phrase like “those who have given their lives for freedom” comes up in regards to our military, people remember the pope’s words and be less quick to throw around buzz-words. In other words: I’m suggesting a little more charity and thought in discourse here.
Surely that couldn’t be a bad thing?
Sam,
Si, yo creo que nadie entendio esta pieza, porque estan hablando de otra cosa que no esta relacionado con lo que Policraticus escribio.
Poli,
Anunciar agradable.
Viva America!
Ellos ya reclaman que actuamos como si somos arriba ellos. La escritura en español los confirma en su creencia.
(Yes, I just used an online translator.)