<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: What IS the Difference Between Contraception and NFP</title>
	<atom:link href="http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/</link>
	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:03:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: radicalcatholicmom</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[radicalcatholicmom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 02:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jason, I have heard of the Lady Comp.  It is supposed to be good.  Meanwhile, has your wife had her hormone levels checked by a holistic doctor?  I say holistic because most conventional western doctors have very limited tests for this.  You could also try and see a NFP only doctor who specializes in tests like this.  For years my doctors were telling me there was nothing wrong, though my charts showed otherwise.  We don&#039;t have any NFP doctors in AK.  I finally went to a Naturalpath and I am getting treated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, I have heard of the Lady Comp.  It is supposed to be good.  Meanwhile, has your wife had her hormone levels checked by a holistic doctor?  I say holistic because most conventional western doctors have very limited tests for this.  You could also try and see a NFP only doctor who specializes in tests like this.  For years my doctors were telling me there was nothing wrong, though my charts showed otherwise.  We don&#8217;t have any NFP doctors in AK.  I finally went to a Naturalpath and I am getting treated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18819</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18819</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know some couples who use a device that measures hormone levels through your saliva, but I&#039;m not sure what it is called.

You can do the Marquette Model without observing mucus, but it may cut you a day short at the beginning of Phase II.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know some couples who use a device that measures hormone levels through your saliva, but I&#8217;m not sure what it is called.</p>
<p>You can do the Marquette Model without observing mucus, but it may cut you a day short at the beginning of Phase II.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18812</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maria, 

Thanks for the link.  However, mucus (or lack thereof) was not an effective sign for my wife.  We&#039;re looking at the LadyComp (German-made).  Have you heard anything about it or other options?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maria, </p>
<p>Thanks for the link.  However, mucus (or lack thereof) was not an effective sign for my wife.  We&#8217;re looking at the LadyComp (German-made).  Have you heard anything about it or other options?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: radicalcatholicmom</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18787</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[radicalcatholicmom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 15:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Karl, that is an excellent observation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl, that is an excellent observation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Karl</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18699</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Karl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The difference is roughly the same as between divorce and annulments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference is roughly the same as between divorce and annulments.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18589</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maria]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jason,

Marquette University&#039;s Institute for Natural Family Planning has a relatively new NFP method that uses the ClearBlue Easy Fertility Monitor, a device used at home which measures hormone levels in urine to estimate the beginning and end of the time of fertility in a women&#039;s menstrual cycle. The information from the monitor can be used in conjunction with other biological indicators of fertility. This method seems very useful in helping a woman better understand and interpret her fertility &quot;signals&quot; since the monitor can help back up her visible observations.

You can check them out at  http://nfp.marquette.edu

Interestingly, their new website is going to have access to online discussion with professional NFP doctors and nurses as well as Catholic theologians with bioethics backgrounds. I am very exciting that they are treating both the physical and spiritual aspects of NFP together. They just launched the new site yesterday so we&#039;ll see if it delivers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,</p>
<p>Marquette University&#8217;s Institute for Natural Family Planning has a relatively new NFP method that uses the ClearBlue Easy Fertility Monitor, a device used at home which measures hormone levels in urine to estimate the beginning and end of the time of fertility in a women&#8217;s menstrual cycle. The information from the monitor can be used in conjunction with other biological indicators of fertility. This method seems very useful in helping a woman better understand and interpret her fertility &#8220;signals&#8221; since the monitor can help back up her visible observations.</p>
<p>You can check them out at  <a href="http://nfp.marquette.edu" rel="nofollow">http://nfp.marquette.edu</a></p>
<p>Interestingly, their new website is going to have access to online discussion with professional NFP doctors and nurses as well as Catholic theologians with bioethics backgrounds. I am very exciting that they are treating both the physical and spiritual aspects of NFP together. They just launched the new site yesterday so we&#8217;ll see if it delivers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zippy</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18583</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zippy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Somehow, the alternative, abstinence until menopause, doesn’t seem so life giving in a married relationship either.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11CASTI.HTM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Casti Connubii&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;i&gt;Some justify* this criminal abuse on the ground that they are weary of children and wish to gratify their desires without their consequent burden. Others say that they cannot on the one hand remain continent nor on the other can they have children because of the difficulties whether on the part of the mother or on the part of family circumstances .

54. But no reason, however grave, may be put forward by which anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious. &lt;/i&gt;

[...]

&lt;i&gt;60. We are deeply touched by the sufferings of those parents who, in extreme want, experience great difficulty in rearing their children.

61. However, they should take care lest the calamitous state of their external affairs should be the occasion for a much more calamitous error. No difficulty can arise that justifies the putting aside of the law of God which forbids all acts intrinsically evil. There is no possible circumstance in which husband and wife cannot, strengthened by the grace of God, fulfill faithfully their duties and preserve in wedlock their chastity unspotted. This truth of Christian Faith is expressed by the teaching of the Council of Trent. &quot;Let no one be so rash as to assert that which the Fathers of the Council have placed under anathema, namely, that there are precepts of God impossible for the just to observe. God does not ask the impossible, but by His commands, instructs you to do what you are able, to pray for what you are not able that He may help you.&quot;[48] &lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Somehow, the alternative, abstinence until menopause, doesn’t seem so life giving in a married relationship either.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11CASTI.HTM" rel="nofollow">Casti Connubii</a>:</p>
<p><i>Some justify* this criminal abuse on the ground that they are weary of children and wish to gratify their desires without their consequent burden. Others say that they cannot on the one hand remain continent nor on the other can they have children because of the difficulties whether on the part of the mother or on the part of family circumstances .</p>
<p>54. But no reason, however grave, may be put forward by which anything intrinsically against nature may become conformable to nature and morally good. Since, therefore, the conjugal act is destined primarily by nature for the begetting of children, those who in exercising it deliberately frustrate its natural power and purpose sin against nature and commit a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious. </i></p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p><i>60. We are deeply touched by the sufferings of those parents who, in extreme want, experience great difficulty in rearing their children.</p>
<p>61. However, they should take care lest the calamitous state of their external affairs should be the occasion for a much more calamitous error. No difficulty can arise that justifies the putting aside of the law of God which forbids all acts intrinsically evil. There is no possible circumstance in which husband and wife cannot, strengthened by the grace of God, fulfill faithfully their duties and preserve in wedlock their chastity unspotted. This truth of Christian Faith is expressed by the teaching of the Council of Trent. &#8220;Let no one be so rash as to assert that which the Fathers of the Council have placed under anathema, namely, that there are precepts of God impossible for the just to observe. God does not ask the impossible, but by His commands, instructs you to do what you are able, to pray for what you are not able that He may help you.&#8221;[48] </i></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A hypothetical question that gives me pause:  

What is a couple to do when they can&#039;t find a NFP method that they can practice?  And by physically practice, I mean that a woman&#039;s body doesn&#039;t send the &quot;signals&quot; necessary to carry out the method.

Now that I&#039;m experiencing the responsibility that comes with just one child, I&#039;m starting to understand just what a grave responsibility parenthood is.  Somehow, the alternative, abstinence until menopause, doesn&#039;t seem so life giving in a married relationship either.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A hypothetical question that gives me pause:  </p>
<p>What is a couple to do when they can&#8217;t find a NFP method that they can practice?  And by physically practice, I mean that a woman&#8217;s body doesn&#8217;t send the &#8220;signals&#8221; necessary to carry out the method.</p>
<p>Now that I&#8217;m experiencing the responsibility that comes with just one child, I&#8217;m starting to understand just what a grave responsibility parenthood is.  Somehow, the alternative, abstinence until menopause, doesn&#8217;t seem so life giving in a married relationship either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zippy</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zippy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 16:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;How on earth can WE judge other peoples’ motives UNLESS they have expressed those motives to us?&lt;/i&gt;

RCM: I&#039;m not sure exactly what the point was to your reply to me, in part because you quote both me and another commenter in a mixed attribution as if I were the author of the entire quote.  I wasn&#039;t judging anyone in particular&#039;s motives.  I was talking about objective criteria.  We may not be able to tell everyone&#039;s motives, but surely we can truthfully say things like &quot;if such and such a motive obtains, it implies thus and so&quot;.

Furthermore, &#039;serious reasons&#039; are not strictly interior subjective psychological criteria.  Reasons are either objectively grave, or not, and if we know what the reasons are - a critical &#039;if&#039; to be sure - then surely we can assess their gravity with some degree of objectivity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>How on earth can WE judge other peoples’ motives UNLESS they have expressed those motives to us?</i></p>
<p>RCM: I&#8217;m not sure exactly what the point was to your reply to me, in part because you quote both me and another commenter in a mixed attribution as if I were the author of the entire quote.  I wasn&#8217;t judging anyone in particular&#8217;s motives.  I was talking about objective criteria.  We may not be able to tell everyone&#8217;s motives, but surely we can truthfully say things like &#8220;if such and such a motive obtains, it implies thus and so&#8221;.</p>
<p>Furthermore, &#8216;serious reasons&#8217; are not strictly interior subjective psychological criteria.  Reasons are either objectively grave, or not, and if we know what the reasons are &#8211; a critical &#8216;if&#8217; to be sure &#8211; then surely we can assess their gravity with some degree of objectivity.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Liz</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18510</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Liz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 13:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen, Maria.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Maria.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nina</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18495</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nina]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And yet you do judge other people&#039;s motives when you continue to insist that ALL those who use birth control methods OTHER than NFP are not as open to life as you -- I have more than twice as many kids as you, and had more kids than you do now when I was your age -- I LOVED having kids, wanted more, but my body finally gave out in that area.  And yet I am told by all the bright young things who haven&#039;t gotten quite as many miles of life under their belts as I have that I don&#039;t truly love my husband, that we aren&#039;t really committed to each other fully and wholly, that our intimacy isn&#039;t as...as...as &lt;i&gt;something&lt;/i&gt; as theirs, blahblahblah -- how ANYONE can make a generalization about another couple&#039;s intimacy is beyond me, and I would imagine God doesn&#039;t look too kindly on that sort of judgementalism, especially when it&#039;s based on sweeping generalizations, skewed and biased propaganda, and assumptions about people you&#039;ve never met  (to me, the comments I&#039;ve seen on your blog, RCM, here, and elsewhere about non-NFP birth control using couples are on par with the kinds of  racist slurs and bigoted comments you&#039;d find on a white supremacist forum). 

You can&#039;t go around being God, knowing what only a couple can know, yet the original post here and similar posts elsewhere, and the comboxes here and elsewhere are filled with nothing but that attitude when it comes to people who don&#039;t use NFP but who are just as open to life as those who do and who may even be MORE open to life than some of those who do.  And that&#039;s why people blow this stuff off -- because you strike at the heart of what is most dear, most precious to them on this planet and insult and demean something God has put together.  

You don&#039;t go about winning hearts and minds by slamming doors in people&#039;s faces and that&#039;s exactly what that sort of rhetoric does. 

This world sees a Church that systematically failed its people over decades and decades (and that&#039;s just recent history!), that knowingly and willingly subjected its children to horrific abuse, that dismissed half its population in the worst possible ways, often leading to their deaths, and then they hear some johnny-come-lately spout all sorts of negative and insulting nonsense about their marriages -- about the partner that has given them more in the way of love and kindness and compassion and loyalty than the Catholic Church ever did, and all they see are a pack of hypocrites who are desperately trying to convince themselves that the little hoops they create for themselves to jump through are real suffering and make them better than other people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yet you do judge other people&#8217;s motives when you continue to insist that ALL those who use birth control methods OTHER than NFP are not as open to life as you &#8212; I have more than twice as many kids as you, and had more kids than you do now when I was your age &#8212; I LOVED having kids, wanted more, but my body finally gave out in that area.  And yet I am told by all the bright young things who haven&#8217;t gotten quite as many miles of life under their belts as I have that I don&#8217;t truly love my husband, that we aren&#8217;t really committed to each other fully and wholly, that our intimacy isn&#8217;t as&#8230;as&#8230;as <i>something</i> as theirs, blahblahblah &#8212; how ANYONE can make a generalization about another couple&#8217;s intimacy is beyond me, and I would imagine God doesn&#8217;t look too kindly on that sort of judgementalism, especially when it&#8217;s based on sweeping generalizations, skewed and biased propaganda, and assumptions about people you&#8217;ve never met  (to me, the comments I&#8217;ve seen on your blog, RCM, here, and elsewhere about non-NFP birth control using couples are on par with the kinds of  racist slurs and bigoted comments you&#8217;d find on a white supremacist forum). </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t go around being God, knowing what only a couple can know, yet the original post here and similar posts elsewhere, and the comboxes here and elsewhere are filled with nothing but that attitude when it comes to people who don&#8217;t use NFP but who are just as open to life as those who do and who may even be MORE open to life than some of those who do.  And that&#8217;s why people blow this stuff off &#8212; because you strike at the heart of what is most dear, most precious to them on this planet and insult and demean something God has put together.  </p>
<p>You don&#8217;t go about winning hearts and minds by slamming doors in people&#8217;s faces and that&#8217;s exactly what that sort of rhetoric does. </p>
<p>This world sees a Church that systematically failed its people over decades and decades (and that&#8217;s just recent history!), that knowingly and willingly subjected its children to horrific abuse, that dismissed half its population in the worst possible ways, often leading to their deaths, and then they hear some johnny-come-lately spout all sorts of negative and insulting nonsense about their marriages &#8212; about the partner that has given them more in the way of love and kindness and compassion and loyalty than the Catholic Church ever did, and all they see are a pack of hypocrites who are desperately trying to convince themselves that the little hoops they create for themselves to jump through are real suffering and make them better than other people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: radicalcatholicmom</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/04/12/what-is-the-difference-between-contraception-and-nfp/#comment-18490</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[radicalcatholicmom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://voxnova2.wordpress.com/?p=2257#comment-18490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Zippy:  &quot;However, I have met lots of young couples who are quick to dismiss Catholic teaching on contraception because they think the Church simply has its own type of contraception (NFP) and is forcing them to use it.

And they are exactly right — when NFP is used with contraceptive intent and/or for other than grave reasons.&quot;

How on earth can WE judge other peoples&#039; motives UNLESS they have expressed those motives to us?  I don&#039;t know how we can go around being God and knowing what only a couple should know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zippy:  &#8220;However, I have met lots of young couples who are quick to dismiss Catholic teaching on contraception because they think the Church simply has its own type of contraception (NFP) and is forcing them to use it.</p>
<p>And they are exactly right — when NFP is used with contraceptive intent and/or for other than grave reasons.&#8221;</p>
<p>How on earth can WE judge other peoples&#8217; motives UNLESS they have expressed those motives to us?  I don&#8217;t know how we can go around being God and knowing what only a couple should know.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

