CIA admits to torturing prisoners
February 6, 2008
What many Americans have suspected has been confirmed. The CIA has used the torture method known as water-boarding on three high-profile prisoners. This admission comes on the heels of U.S. National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell’s statement that water-boarding “would be torture.” Catholics who listen to the Church know what she teaches about torture.
Looks like Canada was right.
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The US is officially a rogue nation.
We can redeem ourselves through an overwhelming defeat of the Republican Party at the polls in November of 2008.
We torture our own military trainees so this is no news here. Given that it was done to three (self-admitted) terrorists, this is far less then the 3700 abortions per day on innocent babies in the U.S. That almost 3 per minute. This does not even include the statistics from rogue nations such as Canada and Europe where such murder is also legal. Let’s see, the Republicans supported 3 waterboardins in the six years since 9/11 (and none since 2003). Obama and Hilary support 3 abortions per minute. This includes the 10, far worse then torture, partial birth abortions that Clinton and Hilary support wholeheartedly. And let’s not forget the grotesque allowing of babies to die who survived the abortion attempt – something that Obama refused to stop. The choice is absolutely clear – VOTE REPUBLICAN
That should read 10 partial birth abortions a day. MM, given that its only three waterboardings, it seems that the Republicans have made good on Bill Clinton’s talk about abortion. They have made torture safe, legal and rare. Something the Dems will never do with abortion.
Phillip,
Given that it was done to three (self-admitted) terrorists, this is far less then the 3700 abortions per day on innocent babies in the U.S. That almost 3 per minute.
I like your logic. Not.
In other words: torturing three people is OK, because there are for more abortions (3700 per day). Let’s defend the culture of life by justifying the culture of death. I find your logic, actually, pretty disgusting.
No. MM’s logic is what is flawed. Let us grant that waterboarding is torture (even given the tortured logic that says it is not in training but is in interrogation.) This is used by apologists to say that we should vote for Dems. But let’s point out that far greater evil is defended by the leading Democratic candidates even to the point of refusing to defend babies who are born alive after abortion attempts. Let us also point out the raw numbers – 3 episodes of waterboarding vs. 3 abortions per minute, 24/7. Let us also point out the 10 partial birth abortions per day – a terror far worse then waterboarding. If we are to do anything logical, it would be to not vote for anyone. But certainly, the logical thing is not to vote Democrat.
What should ultimately disgusting to you is that MM can try to use such “logic.” I look forward to you stating so.
Phillip. I voted for the Republicans for 24 years of my life. Eventually,however, I had to ask ,myself how many babies the “pro-life” party had actually saved in their years in power? If you did not see a certain duplicity in the confirmation of David Souter and the nomination of Harriet Meiers, than I suggest that you better look harder. If you think that Karl Rove and his like cared one iota about the “pro-life” cause other than his forging a coalition for political victory, power for power’s sake, then you are sadly naive.
Let us grant that waterboarding is torture (even given the tortured logic that says it is not in training but is in interrogation.) This is used by apologists to say that we should vote for Dems.
On the other hand, party stances on abortion are used by apologists to say that “we” would vote for Republicans. Lot of good that has done. The Republicans will NOT end abortion in the U.S.A.. Abortion is too American, and the Republicans are too cowardly and depend on the continued existence of abortion to get the votes of well-meaning (but severely misguided) Christians.
Phillip,
What “logic” of MM are you referring to?
Abortion has not ended in America for a variety of reason it is true. Not the least of which is because of Democratic opposition which has made abortion its secular sacrament.
Mark,
Judge Roberts and Alito as well as the Partial Birth abortion ban for the truly naive one.
Phillip,
The court is still 4-5. I know that the hundreds of thousands of deaths in Iraq that were the consequences of our unjust war you will call non-intrinsic evils, but how does this number compare to the partial birth abortions, “intrinsic-evils” that were actually stopped by recent governmental intervention
Actually quite a just war so that is a non-starter. Also it is 4-5, but it is so because of Alito and Roberts. Something that wouldn’t have happened with Dems. Sorry again. Look deeper.
I am sure that you know that you are at odds with the very public and very emphatic statements of both JPII and B16., but I ‘ll reiterate ithem anyway. Of course, I am also quite certain that you do not like the Church meddling in politics ,whenever in comes to U.S. miltary policy.
And Bush has ‘succeedded’ so much in equating the GOP with a culture of life in the USA that the American voters want nothing to do with his party in 2008, as was in 2006. Any short terms gains in the judiciary will be offset by the repulsion that Buch unnecessarily created with his ordering of torture, engaging in s disastrous unjust war of choice, violation of basic human rights etc. Even if both you and I vote Reublican in November, I can guarantee you that our country wants nothing of another Rebplican president. Three more SC retirements are likely, and it may be thus 2-7.
I meant 3-6
At least according to the WSJ piece I read about this this morning, although the CIA did use waterboarding on three suspects (ending five years ago) it is now against their policies and those policies could not be changed without several high-office approvals which seem unlikely to be given again.
While I think this was an arguably pretty bad choice on their part, I’m not sure how having shut down waterboarding makes us a rogue notion, or means that (per the leaked Canadian report) people imprisoned in the US are “likely” to be waterboarded.
Mark D.,
The most immanent SC retirements are all liberal justices.
And as far as backlash goes: The polls I have seem mostly put McCain ahead of Obama or Hillary at the national level.
Darwin – Look more deeply into the U.S.’s use of torture. Start with this website:
http://www.soaw.org
Please. Do it,
Phillip:
You are so out to lunch (and a humble meatless Ash Wednesday lunch to boot) that I don’t even know where to start. First, you seem to be embracing proportionalism, the choice of one intrinsically evil act over another on “lesser evil” grounds. That is not allowed. Second, you seem to miss the key issue at stake here: if certain public leaders did not endorse, approve, and legitimize torture– there would be no legal torture in this country. There is a direct connection, or, in moral theology lingo, there is a high proximity to the evil act. A politician blathering about a “right to choose” or a “right to privacy” when they mean killing the unborn is a true source of scandal– but that politician is not actually doing the abortion, or driving somebody to the clinic.
And as for the ultimate cop-out question as to whether it is torture or not, just ask the following: if Al Qaeda captured US soldiers, held them in a secret prison, and subjected them to waterbaording to extract information– would you still not claim it is torture? I think not, for some reason.
But wait, I thought waterboarding isn’t torture?
“And as for the ultimate cop-out question as to whether it is torture or not, just ask the following: if Al Qaeda captured US soldiers, held them in a secret prison, and subjected them to waterbaording to extract information– would you still not claim it is torture? I think not, for some reason.”
And as for the ultimate cop-out question as to whether it is torture or not, just ask the following: if military trainers took US soldiers, held them in an unknown location, and subjected them to waterbaording to try to extract information – would you still not claim it is torture? I think not, for some reason.
The White House said today that it would approve the use of waterboarding again depending on the circumstances. The torture option is still on the table.
This is a dark, hell-bent legacy.
Tim, you still don’t understand the object of the act in Catholic moral teaching.
Oh MM,
You are so immature you must not have to fast for Lent. The rest of your comment is a condemnation of your positions, not mine. Run along to daycare now little one.
Oh, and Bro. Matthews comments on the Obama post today point out your failure to understand why abortion laws must go. Even if the annoited Obama worships them.
“Tim, you still don’t understand the object of the act in Catholic moral teaching.”
OK, let’s say I don’t. Educate me.
Either waterboarding the act is intrinsically evil or it’s not. As discussed before, intent cannot be entered into the equation concerning intrinsically evil acts.