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	<title>Comments on: The failure of Family Policy</title>
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	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9386</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M.Z. Forrest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks to everyone for their comments.  Many of the comments here should move people to prayer.  We will probably revisist the topic in the future.  Thanks everyone again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to everyone for their comments.  Many of the comments here should move people to prayer.  We will probably revisist the topic in the future.  Thanks everyone again.</p>
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		<title>By: S.Rains</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9384</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[S.Rains]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9384</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To Robert Gartner, Robert, we both hear stories of these generational destructions of family and individuals from within the divorce industry.  We both, as have tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of America have reaped the grief and pain for the profit of a few who sit back on their wealth and laugh at the destruction they have wrought.  Stephen has outlined this destruction well.

Men are particular targets.  And our government is not concerned with any ancillary damage to the generations of children affected.  The men are driven to desperation.

Male suicide rates for the U.S. in the adult ranges are 4 times higher than for females in the same age range. Initial studies showed this higher rate was due to &quot;relational difficulties&quot; and then all studies stopped.  There are grants to study why women and children commit suicide,  but nothing for the men.  

This is an example of ignoring the elephant in the Living Room.

You can find these figures at www.suicidology.org .  You can also see the information on grants available.  Nothing is there for men.

Stephen covers this in his book &quot;Taken Into Custody&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Robert Gartner, Robert, we both hear stories of these generational destructions of family and individuals from within the divorce industry.  We both, as have tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of America have reaped the grief and pain for the profit of a few who sit back on their wealth and laugh at the destruction they have wrought.  Stephen has outlined this destruction well.</p>
<p>Men are particular targets.  And our government is not concerned with any ancillary damage to the generations of children affected.  The men are driven to desperation.</p>
<p>Male suicide rates for the U.S. in the adult ranges are 4 times higher than for females in the same age range. Initial studies showed this higher rate was due to &#8220;relational difficulties&#8221; and then all studies stopped.  There are grants to study why women and children commit suicide,  but nothing for the men.  </p>
<p>This is an example of ignoring the elephant in the Living Room.</p>
<p>You can find these figures at <a href="http://www.suicidology.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.suicidology.org</a> .  You can also see the information on grants available.  Nothing is there for men.</p>
<p>Stephen covers this in his book &#8220;Taken Into Custody&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Gartner</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9333</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Gartner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I left a few essential pieces out of my treatise. Since my father and mother were shame based they could not stand being condemned (excommunicated) from the Catholic Church. It was like the Catholic Church abandoned them. If any of you know much about Shame, it is about being hyprevigilant and guarded. It is a disease of being rather than for example of being guilt based which is more like a disease of doing. Shame based cannot objectify therefore any little blip in being &#039;perfect&#039; is like major destruction.  The Church is not to blame for this per se but none the less it constitutes a huge impact on the shame based. Read Richard Wilbur&#039;s Poem: The Undead.

And of course the shame based must always find an outlet to dump thier shame. So I became the target for each of my parents, that I was to blame for the divorce,  a belief that has prevailed to this day, especially from my father. My own mother sued me to help take my ( now 21 yr old)  daughter from me and my father is suing me right now over my mother&#039;s estate, one for which I had been named the executor, via my adopted sister, who came via Catholic Charities and who never had a life of love either, they both are now working to destroy me further. Yes my sister is shame based too and hungry for her &#039;share&#039;, (partly due to the sense of entitlement compelling the shame based) which for her has never come, partly due to having married a man who has spent his life in prison, conditions of  her health, and lately having a daughter in prison too, not to mention her family life in our household when she too was a child.

So the GAME Dr. Baskerville describes has generational roots in me. It has destroyed me several times probably to the point I had developed cancer last year right after I had put a years effort into the matters of my mothers estate and house for its sale. 

Catholics need to take note of this systematized destruction Baskerville describes. And it should take note of whom it bore, John Bradshaw and his message. They along with Anne Wilson Schaef&#039;s thought go hand in hand. 

There is still time for the living. I for one am still alive and am standing at the door of America waiting for it to get off its binge of international predation and internal consumption.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I left a few essential pieces out of my treatise. Since my father and mother were shame based they could not stand being condemned (excommunicated) from the Catholic Church. It was like the Catholic Church abandoned them. If any of you know much about Shame, it is about being hyprevigilant and guarded. It is a disease of being rather than for example of being guilt based which is more like a disease of doing. Shame based cannot objectify therefore any little blip in being &#8216;perfect&#8217; is like major destruction.  The Church is not to blame for this per se but none the less it constitutes a huge impact on the shame based. Read Richard Wilbur&#8217;s Poem: The Undead.</p>
<p>And of course the shame based must always find an outlet to dump thier shame. So I became the target for each of my parents, that I was to blame for the divorce,  a belief that has prevailed to this day, especially from my father. My own mother sued me to help take my ( now 21 yr old)  daughter from me and my father is suing me right now over my mother&#8217;s estate, one for which I had been named the executor, via my adopted sister, who came via Catholic Charities and who never had a life of love either, they both are now working to destroy me further. Yes my sister is shame based too and hungry for her &#8216;share&#8217;, (partly due to the sense of entitlement compelling the shame based) which for her has never come, partly due to having married a man who has spent his life in prison, conditions of  her health, and lately having a daughter in prison too, not to mention her family life in our household when she too was a child.</p>
<p>So the GAME Dr. Baskerville describes has generational roots in me. It has destroyed me several times probably to the point I had developed cancer last year right after I had put a years effort into the matters of my mothers estate and house for its sale. </p>
<p>Catholics need to take note of this systematized destruction Baskerville describes. And it should take note of whom it bore, John Bradshaw and his message. They along with Anne Wilson Schaef&#8217;s thought go hand in hand. </p>
<p>There is still time for the living. I for one am still alive and am standing at the door of America waiting for it to get off its binge of international predation and internal consumption.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Showalter</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9321</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stuart Showalter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No fault divorce was first adopted in California and signed into law by . . . Ronald Reagan.  Republicans have sought to destroy marriage and fatherhood.  Democrats have sought to destroy marriage and fatherhood.  Anyone who supports a candidate based upon membership in either of those parties is contributing to the problem.  Between those two parties I have only seen one candidate who supports the family . . . Ron Paul.  Until politicians are voted for based upon their position and voting record, not as the one who has the perceived best chance of beating the one you oppose, then the problem will continue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No fault divorce was first adopted in California and signed into law by . . . Ronald Reagan.  Republicans have sought to destroy marriage and fatherhood.  Democrats have sought to destroy marriage and fatherhood.  Anyone who supports a candidate based upon membership in either of those parties is contributing to the problem.  Between those two parties I have only seen one candidate who supports the family . . . Ron Paul.  Until politicians are voted for based upon their position and voting record, not as the one who has the perceived best chance of beating the one you oppose, then the problem will continue.</p>
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		<title>By: S.Rains</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9316</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[S.Rains]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a Christian, I am opposed to divorce outside of God&#039;s laws just as I am against the murder of unborn children.  

Stephen Baskervilles quotes are right on track.  If anything, his articles and his new hit book &quot;Taken Into Custody&quot;, understate many issues for the sake of not turning many off to his message.  His books attack many of the myths upon which our current Anti-Christian, feminist inspired, marriage policy is based.

A little research will horrify even the most jaded.

Our families and children are being murdered and we argue over which political party did the most.  They both did. Lets keep voting in anyone else but the incumbents until they get the message.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Christian, I am opposed to divorce outside of God&#8217;s laws just as I am against the murder of unborn children.  </p>
<p>Stephen Baskervilles quotes are right on track.  If anything, his articles and his new hit book &#8220;Taken Into Custody&#8221;, understate many issues for the sake of not turning many off to his message.  His books attack many of the myths upon which our current Anti-Christian, feminist inspired, marriage policy is based.</p>
<p>A little research will horrify even the most jaded.</p>
<p>Our families and children are being murdered and we argue over which political party did the most.  They both did. Lets keep voting in anyone else but the incumbents until they get the message.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Merck</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9279</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Merck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that’s a great article by Stephen Baskerville.  

What may be missing, in some of these debates, is what all this is costing us as a society. If you begin to look at the cost to the taxpayer, it doesn’t take long to figure out that the divorce, and single mother “industries”, are costing the “taxpayer” simply *staggering* and completely *mind-boggling* sums of money. 

Nancy D., in her comment posted above, illustrates the cost to her family and the insanity of the way she and her husband are treated by the “system”, and I’m sure we all feel for her. In fact, her dilemma is shared by literally millions of others across the nation.

However, what’s happening to her, and millions of others, is relatively minor in comparison to the plight of the taxpayer and our society as a whole. We are being robbed of our heritage, as a free nation, in order for the people orchestrating this injustice to extract a living. 

Nancy states that her husband’s ex-wife is getting rich from the divorce, but she is merely feasting on the scraps that hit the floor. The lion’s share of the booty is being devoured by the multitude of parasitic freeloaders who make their living exploiting our children, at the expense of the taxpayer.  

I also believe that the catalyst for this morass was Roe vs. Wade. If we refuse to protect the rights of the unborn child, we establish a precedent that will ultimately affect us all. 

If the unborn child is not worthy of our protection, then who is. 

Kevin Merck]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that’s a great article by Stephen Baskerville.  </p>
<p>What may be missing, in some of these debates, is what all this is costing us as a society. If you begin to look at the cost to the taxpayer, it doesn’t take long to figure out that the divorce, and single mother “industries”, are costing the “taxpayer” simply *staggering* and completely *mind-boggling* sums of money. </p>
<p>Nancy D., in her comment posted above, illustrates the cost to her family and the insanity of the way she and her husband are treated by the “system”, and I’m sure we all feel for her. In fact, her dilemma is shared by literally millions of others across the nation.</p>
<p>However, what’s happening to her, and millions of others, is relatively minor in comparison to the plight of the taxpayer and our society as a whole. We are being robbed of our heritage, as a free nation, in order for the people orchestrating this injustice to extract a living. </p>
<p>Nancy states that her husband’s ex-wife is getting rich from the divorce, but she is merely feasting on the scraps that hit the floor. The lion’s share of the booty is being devoured by the multitude of parasitic freeloaders who make their living exploiting our children, at the expense of the taxpayer.  </p>
<p>I also believe that the catalyst for this morass was Roe vs. Wade. If we refuse to protect the rights of the unborn child, we establish a precedent that will ultimately affect us all. </p>
<p>If the unborn child is not worthy of our protection, then who is. </p>
<p>Kevin Merck</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9272</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Nothing is worse than kids losing the home they were born into and having to visit mom in her house and dad in his. Then boyfrieds/girlfriends enter the picture. Yikes. No kid should have to suffer so much.&lt;/i&gt;

If you think that nothing&#039;s worse than that, we disagree.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Nothing is worse than kids losing the home they were born into and having to visit mom in her house and dad in his. Then boyfrieds/girlfriends enter the picture. Yikes. No kid should have to suffer so much.</i></p>
<p>If you think that nothing&#8217;s worse than that, we disagree.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger F. Gay</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9270</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger F. Gay]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Donald R. McClarey Says: &quot;I find the current divorce laws abhorrent, but there is simply no broadbased political movement battling for change,&quot;

The propagandists that helped create the current destructive pork-barrel driven divorce industry and its abhorrent laws; launched a pre-emptive strike against those who they knew would be on the front line against them - divorced and never-married fathers. The old established politically controlled media decided to pay little to no attention to the battle, leading the general public to believe there is none - with &quot;bipartisan support&quot; for the corruption their only measure of abense of contraversy.

The coalition in the battle is expanding. Many right-wing Christian radio stations have been interviewing Stephen Baskerville on this topic. More is needed. I&#039;ve given a personal pledge not to vote for any candidate that isn&#039;t on board.
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/11/07/three-election-pledges/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donald R. McClarey Says: &#8220;I find the current divorce laws abhorrent, but there is simply no broadbased political movement battling for change,&#8221;</p>
<p>The propagandists that helped create the current destructive pork-barrel driven divorce industry and its abhorrent laws; launched a pre-emptive strike against those who they knew would be on the front line against them &#8211; divorced and never-married fathers. The old established politically controlled media decided to pay little to no attention to the battle, leading the general public to believe there is none &#8211; with &#8220;bipartisan support&#8221; for the corruption their only measure of abense of contraversy.</p>
<p>The coalition in the battle is expanding. Many right-wing Christian radio stations have been interviewing Stephen Baskerville on this topic. More is needed. I&#8217;ve given a personal pledge not to vote for any candidate that isn&#8217;t on board.<br />
<a href="http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/11/07/three-election-pledges/" rel="nofollow">http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/11/07/three-election-pledges/</a></p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9269</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M.Z. Forrest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for linking your review Dr. Morse.  It was a quite enjoyable read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for linking your review Dr. Morse.  It was a quite enjoyable read.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Gartner</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9267</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Gartner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was raised a Catholic, went to Catholic schools through high school. My parents divorced when I was 16 and shortly after that I fell out of Catholicism.

I have repeated my past by making babies with two women who are just like my parents. Shame-based, I call it after being introduced to the concept by the Esteemed John Bradshaw who had been my teacher at a Catholic High school, but from whom I learned much 15 yers later. 

My parents and the mothers of my daughters are shame-based.

So is and are the systems to which we bring our troubles. When I had to fight for my oldest daughter I experienced another department of the Evil, the shame based systems and processes of Bar associations, Family Courts, judges, attorneys, even psychologists.  Read Anne Wilson Schaef&#039;s When Society Becomes An Addict, Harper and Row, 1986.

Dare I suggest that perhaps even religions have this disease too. Why is it then that seldom do we ever hear of a religion fighting for the very welfare of the planet Earth on the brink of destruction, or a delving into an investigation and action regarding divorce and rampant babymaking among the unwed and the youth, (right now in Texas at 41/1000) ?

Dr. Stephen Baskerville brings to us the succinct description of the problems. It is for us to become aware of them with, I think, an understanding of shame and addiction, and take them on, (soon and vociferously)  as these have existed at least since my parents got divorced and my father was basically driven from my life as I have been via government imposition with the assistance of some advocacy groups, Justice for Children among them( diseased too)  from the lives of my precious two daughters. The oldest is now 21 and still cannot talk to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was raised a Catholic, went to Catholic schools through high school. My parents divorced when I was 16 and shortly after that I fell out of Catholicism.</p>
<p>I have repeated my past by making babies with two women who are just like my parents. Shame-based, I call it after being introduced to the concept by the Esteemed John Bradshaw who had been my teacher at a Catholic High school, but from whom I learned much 15 yers later. </p>
<p>My parents and the mothers of my daughters are shame-based.</p>
<p>So is and are the systems to which we bring our troubles. When I had to fight for my oldest daughter I experienced another department of the Evil, the shame based systems and processes of Bar associations, Family Courts, judges, attorneys, even psychologists.  Read Anne Wilson Schaef&#8217;s When Society Becomes An Addict, Harper and Row, 1986.</p>
<p>Dare I suggest that perhaps even religions have this disease too. Why is it then that seldom do we ever hear of a religion fighting for the very welfare of the planet Earth on the brink of destruction, or a delving into an investigation and action regarding divorce and rampant babymaking among the unwed and the youth, (right now in Texas at 41/1000) ?</p>
<p>Dr. Stephen Baskerville brings to us the succinct description of the problems. It is for us to become aware of them with, I think, an understanding of shame and addiction, and take them on, (soon and vociferously)  as these have existed at least since my parents got divorced and my father was basically driven from my life as I have been via government imposition with the assistance of some advocacy groups, Justice for Children among them( diseased too)  from the lives of my precious two daughters. The oldest is now 21 and still cannot talk to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Roback Morse</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9254</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jennifer Roback Morse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9254</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael Ross: you might be interested to know that Baskerville quotes Judy Parejko at length in his book. His book is very much worth buying and reading and sharing. I reviewed it in the National Catholic Register.  http://ncregister.com/site/article/7342/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Ross: you might be interested to know that Baskerville quotes Judy Parejko at length in his book. His book is very much worth buying and reading and sharing. I reviewed it in the National Catholic Register.  <a href="http://ncregister.com/site/article/7342/" rel="nofollow">http://ncregister.com/site/article/7342/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Zippy</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9238</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zippy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2008/01/14/the-failure-of-family-policy/#comment-9238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Divorce occurs because it is not merely permitted as a civil remedy for extraordinary cases, but because it is treated as a fundamental human right.  Modern people are terrified of nothing quite so much as consent which cannot be revoked.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Divorce occurs because it is not merely permitted as a civil remedy for extraordinary cases, but because it is treated as a fundamental human right.  Modern people are terrified of nothing quite so much as consent which cannot be revoked.</p>
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