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	<title>Comments on: Maybe it&#8217;s not the compassionate conservatism&#8230;</title>
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	<description>Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics</description>
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		<title>By: Donald R. McClarey</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6279</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Donald R. McClarey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 21:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6279</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Huckabee is performing the function of &quot;none of the above&quot; for cultural conservative Republicans.  Although I could vote for him in a heartbeat against Mrs. Clinton, I find his fair tax ideas, along with his history of raising taxes disquieting.  I think his recent flubbing of a question on the National Intelligence Estimate also betrays a &quot;not ready for prime time&quot; quality.  Huckabee may well be on the ticket but not in the top slot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huckabee is performing the function of &#8220;none of the above&#8221; for cultural conservative Republicans.  Although I could vote for him in a heartbeat against Mrs. Clinton, I find his fair tax ideas, along with his history of raising taxes disquieting.  I think his recent flubbing of a question on the National Intelligence Estimate also betrays a &#8220;not ready for prime time&#8221; quality.  Huckabee may well be on the ticket but not in the top slot.</p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6245</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M.Z. Forrest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff Emmanuel offers a terse reply to the post &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.redstate.com/redhot/jeff_emanuel/2007/dec/06/re_is_huckabee_a_compassionate_conservative&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt;

He charges that one can still make the argument that Huckabee is a compassionate conservative.  I said so explicitly.  It happened to follow the part he excerpted, so I don&#039;t think his point is all that revelatory.  In doing so he misses the point made in the following sentence that I&#039;m addressing those who use the appelation for their own agenda.

He then attempts to argue greater spending without identifying that spending.  Considering that I identified Medicare, Education, and misc. small social programs, am I to assume that he is referring to Homeland Security, Transportation, and Defense?  His dismissal of the Medicare expansion also ignores that no candidate is offering to repeal it.  I don&#039;t mind disagreement, but if he does have significant disagreements with Bush&#039;s spending priorities, and he is presumably willing to support the Defense and Homeland Security expenditures, and he is unwilling to attribute those spending failures to Compassionate Conservatism, then he really needs to enlighten us as to where this unliked spending is coming from.  Bonus points for him if he can argue that Huckabee is philosophically inclined to do the same.

As far as insulting to intelligence, to call a candidate who has had no fewer than 5 hit pieces written about him in a month, opposition from the Club for Growth and National Review, and anemic fund raising numbers an establishment candidate is a joke and a cruel one at that.  I hate feigned ignorance.  In his competent Bush analysis he conveniently leaves out foreign policy, something I was pretty explicit about.  He ends up in substanciating my argument that people are using the label compassionate conservative to serve their own agendas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff Emmanuel offers a terse reply to the post <a href="http://www.redstate.com/redhot/jeff_emanuel/2007/dec/06/re_is_huckabee_a_compassionate_conservative" rel="nofollow">here.</a></p>
<p>He charges that one can still make the argument that Huckabee is a compassionate conservative.  I said so explicitly.  It happened to follow the part he excerpted, so I don&#8217;t think his point is all that revelatory.  In doing so he misses the point made in the following sentence that I&#8217;m addressing those who use the appelation for their own agenda.</p>
<p>He then attempts to argue greater spending without identifying that spending.  Considering that I identified Medicare, Education, and misc. small social programs, am I to assume that he is referring to Homeland Security, Transportation, and Defense?  His dismissal of the Medicare expansion also ignores that no candidate is offering to repeal it.  I don&#8217;t mind disagreement, but if he does have significant disagreements with Bush&#8217;s spending priorities, and he is presumably willing to support the Defense and Homeland Security expenditures, and he is unwilling to attribute those spending failures to Compassionate Conservatism, then he really needs to enlighten us as to where this unliked spending is coming from.  Bonus points for him if he can argue that Huckabee is philosophically inclined to do the same.</p>
<p>As far as insulting to intelligence, to call a candidate who has had no fewer than 5 hit pieces written about him in a month, opposition from the Club for Growth and National Review, and anemic fund raising numbers an establishment candidate is a joke and a cruel one at that.  I hate feigned ignorance.  In his competent Bush analysis he conveniently leaves out foreign policy, something I was pretty explicit about.  He ends up in substanciating my argument that people are using the label compassionate conservative to serve their own agendas.</p>
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		<title>By: TeutonicTim</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TeutonicTim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 03:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not this again. Fair and humane treatment of people is far, far away from letting them walk all over those who follow a just law and pay their fair share.  From a &lt;i&gt;governing perspective, he&#039;s supposed to support those who &lt;i&gt;elect&lt;/i&gt; him.  Why should he let people who skirt the system and basically steal from his constituents take precedence over them?  A fair and humane treatment would be to transport where they came from, and perhaps punish them for stealing the identity they needed to get a job, and make them pay back taxes.  Once that happens, they would be welcome to come back into the country legally, assuming they&#039;re not a major criminal.

Huckabee&#039;s record on immigration is hardly fair to the people he would be electing.  Don&#039;t get me started on his clemency for major criminals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not this again. Fair and humane treatment of people is far, far away from letting them walk all over those who follow a just law and pay their fair share.  From a <i>governing perspective, he&#8217;s supposed to support those who </i><i>elect</i> him.  Why should he let people who skirt the system and basically steal from his constituents take precedence over them?  A fair and humane treatment would be to transport where they came from, and perhaps punish them for stealing the identity they needed to get a job, and make them pay back taxes.  Once that happens, they would be welcome to come back into the country legally, assuming they&#8217;re not a major criminal.</p>
<p>Huckabee&#8217;s record on immigration is hardly fair to the people he would be electing.  Don&#8217;t get me started on his clemency for major criminals.</p>
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		<title>By: Katerina Ivanovna</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6218</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Katerina Ivanovna]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6218</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;If I didn’t know better, I’d think we were nominating a pro-life Democrat.&lt;/i&gt;

What&#039;s so bad about that? Are we thinking as Catholics or as Republicans?

&lt;i&gt;His record on illegal immigration was weak,&lt;/i&gt;

What does this mean? And how as a &quot;Catholic faithful to the Magisterium&quot; you would want a candidate who is &quot;strong&quot; on illegal immigration? What &quot;Magisterium&quot; are we talking about here? The bishops and even the Popes have been very clear on the fair and humane treatment that illegal immigrants deserve as human beings.  This is not the same treatment being trumpeted by most in the Republican platform.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If I didn’t know better, I’d think we were nominating a pro-life Democrat.</i></p>
<p>What&#8217;s so bad about that? Are we thinking as Catholics or as Republicans?</p>
<p><i>His record on illegal immigration was weak,</i></p>
<p>What does this mean? And how as a &#8220;Catholic faithful to the Magisterium&#8221; you would want a candidate who is &#8220;strong&#8221; on illegal immigration? What &#8220;Magisterium&#8221; are we talking about here? The bishops and even the Popes have been very clear on the fair and humane treatment that illegal immigrants deserve as human beings.  This is not the same treatment being trumpeted by most in the Republican platform.</p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6215</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M.Z. Forrest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 22:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6215</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure how much we know his foreign policy at this point.  His speech to the CFR had a reasonable position on Iran.  He stated that Iran being a nation-state could be treated like one, and I think the NIE confirms that.  I think we&#039;ll have a better idea once we get an idea of who his foreign policy advisers are.  Outside of Ron Paul, I don&#039;t think you&#039;ll see a gross diversity of foreign policy positions among the GOP candidates.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure how much we know his foreign policy at this point.  His speech to the CFR had a reasonable position on Iran.  He stated that Iran being a nation-state could be treated like one, and I think the NIE confirms that.  I think we&#8217;ll have a better idea once we get an idea of who his foreign policy advisers are.  Outside of Ron Paul, I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll see a gross diversity of foreign policy positions among the GOP candidates.</p>
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		<title>By: Morning's Minion</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6212</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morning's Minion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6212</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Toughness and gravitas that will make people seem safe.... of God, not that again. I think this is a side effect of the strong Calvinist-Gnostic strain in American culture. . Americans do not like seeing themselves as mere forgiven sinners, with a “there, but for the grace of God go I” attitude. How else you do validate your status as one of the elect if not by scapegoating others? There is a perverse psychological effect: Americans have an obsessive need to be the good guys, as otherwise they might be damned. I believe this explains continued high levels of support for the death penalty, overlooking the failure to observe ius in bello during world war 2, and the noisy clambering for an global “war on terror” in the aftermath of the collapse of the World Trade Center. Every time the bad guy is punished, the person on the other side feels affirmed in his goodness.  It is the psychological fallout of a dysfunctional theology.

Let me put it a different way. The British dealt with IRA terrorism for years. They correctly say that the best way to defeat terrorism was through the criminal justice system, and an attempt to alleviate the underlying problems. There was no talk of bombing west Belfast or declaring a war on &quot;Catholic fascism&quot;. There was no over-reaction because the Brits did not feel an existential vulnerability after being hit by terrorists, a fear that shook the core of the very sense of self in the world order.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toughness and gravitas that will make people seem safe&#8230;. of God, not that again. I think this is a side effect of the strong Calvinist-Gnostic strain in American culture. . Americans do not like seeing themselves as mere forgiven sinners, with a “there, but for the grace of God go I” attitude. How else you do validate your status as one of the elect if not by scapegoating others? There is a perverse psychological effect: Americans have an obsessive need to be the good guys, as otherwise they might be damned. I believe this explains continued high levels of support for the death penalty, overlooking the failure to observe ius in bello during world war 2, and the noisy clambering for an global “war on terror” in the aftermath of the collapse of the World Trade Center. Every time the bad guy is punished, the person on the other side feels affirmed in his goodness.  It is the psychological fallout of a dysfunctional theology.</p>
<p>Let me put it a different way. The British dealt with IRA terrorism for years. They correctly say that the best way to defeat terrorism was through the criminal justice system, and an attempt to alleviate the underlying problems. There was no talk of bombing west Belfast or declaring a war on &#8220;Catholic fascism&#8221;. There was no over-reaction because the Brits did not feel an existential vulnerability after being hit by terrorists, a fear that shook the core of the very sense of self in the world order.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry Karlson</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6211</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Henry Karlson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Blackadder

Dr. David Banner for President, then?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blackadder</p>
<p>Dr. David Banner for President, then?</p>
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		<title>By: Blackadder</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6210</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blackadder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is odd that a guy whose main domestic idea is getting rid of the income tax would be regarded as having nothing to offer fiscal conservatives. I think M.Z. is right that the best way for the GOP to win in 2008 is to temper (or at least temporize) some of its support for free market principles. I don&#039;t like it, personally, but that&#039;s where the votes are. The problem is that to win, a candidate also has to be credible on national security, and Huckabees goofiness gets in the way of this. A candidate needn&#039;t promise to nuke Iran, obviously, but he has to be able to project a sense of toughness, of gravitas, that will make people feel protected and safe.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is odd that a guy whose main domestic idea is getting rid of the income tax would be regarded as having nothing to offer fiscal conservatives. I think M.Z. is right that the best way for the GOP to win in 2008 is to temper (or at least temporize) some of its support for free market principles. I don&#8217;t like it, personally, but that&#8217;s where the votes are. The problem is that to win, a candidate also has to be credible on national security, and Huckabees goofiness gets in the way of this. A candidate needn&#8217;t promise to nuke Iran, obviously, but he has to be able to project a sense of toughness, of gravitas, that will make people feel protected and safe.</p>
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		<title>By: M.Z. Forrest</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6209</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[M.Z. Forrest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6209</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think your argument has two difficulties:
1)  I&#039;m really not sure how many Libertarians and Fiscal Cons will move to support the Democratic Party.
2)  I don&#039;t think there are enough of them in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, and Iowa to to outweigh the heavily disillisioned Regean Democrats.  Any GOP strategy that includes losing both PA and OH and possibly losing the other two is not one that I think will win.  I&#039;ve already written off MN, WI, and MI who haven&#039;t supported a Republican at the national level in a long time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your argument has two difficulties:<br />
1)  I&#8217;m really not sure how many Libertarians and Fiscal Cons will move to support the Democratic Party.<br />
2)  I don&#8217;t think there are enough of them in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, and Iowa to to outweigh the heavily disillisioned Regean Democrats.  Any GOP strategy that includes losing both PA and OH and possibly losing the other two is not one that I think will win.  I&#8217;ve already written off MN, WI, and MI who haven&#8217;t supported a Republican at the national level in a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Vince</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vince]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Speaking as a Catholic faithful to the Magisterium, I am very alarmed at the rise of Huckabee in the polls, and I think he would be a terrible general election candidate who would be savaged by the Clintonistas.  The reason is because his appeal only extends to the evangelical/social conservative wing of the party.  He does not have cross-faction appeal, he will keep the fiscal conservatives and libertarians who support the Republican party on the sidelines.  

He has much ethical baggage from his governorship, and his record regarding clemencies and pardons was atrocious.  His record on illegal immigration was weak, and he was a tax and spender.  If I didn&#039;t know better, I&#039;d think we were nominating a pro-life Democrat.  Doesn&#039;t conservatism within the Republican Party matter anymore?  Or are we as a party susceptible to anyone who has a silver tongue and can sell you a bridge in Brooklyn?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as a Catholic faithful to the Magisterium, I am very alarmed at the rise of Huckabee in the polls, and I think he would be a terrible general election candidate who would be savaged by the Clintonistas.  The reason is because his appeal only extends to the evangelical/social conservative wing of the party.  He does not have cross-faction appeal, he will keep the fiscal conservatives and libertarians who support the Republican party on the sidelines.  </p>
<p>He has much ethical baggage from his governorship, and his record regarding clemencies and pardons was atrocious.  His record on illegal immigration was weak, and he was a tax and spender.  If I didn&#8217;t know better, I&#8217;d think we were nominating a pro-life Democrat.  Doesn&#8217;t conservatism within the Republican Party matter anymore?  Or are we as a party susceptible to anyone who has a silver tongue and can sell you a bridge in Brooklyn?</p>
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		<title>By: Morning's Minion</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morning's Minion]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 20:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh come on, the Chuck Norris thing was  a breath of fresh air as political ads go. My concern with Huckabee is his messianic complex-- he seems (in recent speeches at least) to believe that God is behind his surge in the polls. That is exactly the sort of &quot;religion&quot; that should keep its distance from politics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh come on, the Chuck Norris thing was  a breath of fresh air as political ads go. My concern with Huckabee is his messianic complex&#8211; he seems (in recent speeches at least) to believe that God is behind his surge in the polls. That is exactly the sort of &#8220;religion&#8221; that should keep its distance from politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Blackadder</title>
		<link>http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6192</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blackadder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vox-nova.com/2007/12/06/maybe-its-not-the-compassionate-conservatism/#comment-6192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Personally, what turns me off of Huckabee most is not so much his policies (he&#039;s not great but none of them are) as his unseriousness. A presidential candidate who&#039;s first ad in Iowa features him saying &quot;There is no chin under Chuck Norris&#039; beard, only another fist,&quot; who responds to a question about his lack of foreign policy experience by saying &quot;I may not be the expert that some people are on foreign policy, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night,&quot; and who responds to concerns over immigration by saying &quot;I drink a different kind of Jesus juice&quot; doesn&#039;t inspire a lot of confidence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, what turns me off of Huckabee most is not so much his policies (he&#8217;s not great but none of them are) as his unseriousness. A presidential candidate who&#8217;s first ad in Iowa features him saying &#8220;There is no chin under Chuck Norris&#8217; beard, only another fist,&#8221; who responds to a question about his lack of foreign policy experience by saying &#8220;I may not be the expert that some people are on foreign policy, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night,&#8221; and who responds to concerns over immigration by saying &#8220;I drink a different kind of Jesus juice&#8221; doesn&#8217;t inspire a lot of confidence.</p>
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