Comments on: The Logic of Profit and the Logic of Equal Distribution http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/ Catholic perspectives on culture, society, and politics Thu, 24 May 2012 17:54:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Pete http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1943 Tue, 02 Oct 2007 04:27:42 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1943 Policraticus,
Your posts have been most informative. I just recently found Vox Nova and I’m finding it a wonderful educational supplement. Could you clarify a few things for me? I understand your maintaining of the strict definition of the “free market”, and the errors implicit in that system which result from the flawed anthropologies of Hume and Smith. Could you distinguish that “free market” from sort of economic freedom advocated by JPII and Ben XVI? Second, I doubt you would argue that captalism has had many positive effects in the form of various technological breakthroughs etc. (as well as plenty of abuses). Is there another system that could have achieved these positive breakthroughs, while avoiding the dehumanization inherent in capitalism? If not, then is it a case of foregoing consequencialist benefits that result from an intrinsically evil system? Finally, the one quibble that I have with your description of the necessary depersonlization of capitalist exchange is that it would seem to make my trip to Starbucks in the morning an inhuman exchange based on immoral mutual use. What if I just want a cup of coffee? Or a new car for that matter? Could you give me a basic description of your best case, or a better case scenario? Thanks!

]]> By: Phillip http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1873 Mon, 01 Oct 2007 14:42:24 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1873 Phaedrus,

Good point. Teachers in Catholic schools typically make less then their public school counterparts. Retirement plans, health care provision are also pathetic compared to the public and private sector.
Part of this can be easily remedied. A great emphasis on solidarity here but little on the other wing of Catholic social thought which includes subsidiarity. I was at a talk the other day where an administrator from the Diocese of Wichita, KS noted that the typical Catholic gives 0.1% of his income to the Church. In Wichita it is closer to 1% or ten times higher. With that one percent, the diocese there can provide free schooling (thus aiding many poor children stuck in sub-average school) as well as provide free nursing care to all who need it. Costs for hospital care are also much lower. If people think they have too much money, the principle of subsidiarity provides a solution. Give it away to the Church. Write a check to the charity of your choice. Give money to your local Catholic school for a scholarship for a needy student. Pay for a nursing home bed. The list goes on and on.

As Christian anthropology points out the importance of the person, it is with the person that solidarity must begin.

]]> By: Phaedrus http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1857 Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:39:15 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1857 1. Perhaps the Pope could start with equalizing the distribution of income WITHIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Some parishes are obviously “richer” than others. Liberal Catholics that believe in equal distribtion of income therefore cannot oppose equal ditributionof collections within the church can they? btw I am willing to coordinate this reditribution process.

2. All Catholic institutions churches, hospitals, schools must immediately act to pay all employees no less than $15 per hour or the local “living wage” whichever is higher. Every jnaitor, admissions clerk, paraprofessional must immediately receive a raise to no less than $30,000 per year.

What better way to illustrate the church’s position than leading by example. If the chrch cannot immediately achieve the equal distribution of income within the church and immediate implementation of a living wage in its own institutions the church must desist from demanding such behavior from others.

]]> By: Policraticus http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1756 Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:05:44 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1756 Christopher,

Because I am not yet convinced that John Paul II accepted free market econoics, however nuanced that acceptance was, I really cannot answer your question.

]]> By: Policraticus http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1755 Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:04:39 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1755 Blackadder,

I’d skip Cajetan and go straight to Vitoria. He was one of the most important figures in the Salamanca school, and several of his works have been translated into English.

]]> By: Blackadder http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1722 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:40:33 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1722 Policraticus,

It will probably be a while before I get around to reading Cardinal Cajetan’s De Cambiis, assuming I can even find an english translation (sadly, unlike you I don’t speak Latin). But I’d certainly like to read more of the figures Woods mentions, as well as any other figures he may have overlooked. Whom would you recommend?

]]> By: Morning's Minion http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1696 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:54:36 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1696 Actually, Christopher, everything I read of Novak (and I have read him) tells me be does not understand either CST or economics. I’ve never read Woods.

]]> By: Christopher http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1695 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:52:33 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1695 Free market, by its very machinery, reduces social interaction to exchange because it requires neither the presence of persons nor any reference to the value and dignity of the person. And because free market has bypassed the person in its foundations, it is impossible to re-insert the person and the necessary respect for his dignity without collapsing its structures.

Michael Joseph: referring to my own post, that said, how do we deal with John Paul II’s nuanced acceptance of the free market and condemnation of ‘neoliberalism’?

]]> By: Christopher http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1693 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:50:59 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1693 I wonder how people like Woods and Novak deal with the teachings of Leo XIII and Pius IX.

You might want to try reading them.

]]> By: Morning's Minion http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1690 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:07:47 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1690 I wonder how people like Woods and Novak deal with the teachings of Leo XIII and Pius IX. There’s abolsutely nothing ambiguous about how they address capitalism– “idols of Liberalism”, “twin rocks of shipwreck” (free market and collectivism, ” a poisoned spring…the errors of individualist economic thinking”.

]]> By: Policraticus http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1689 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:44:56 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1689 Blackadder,

Yes, I have, and I encourage you to do the same, if you already have not, and also to expand that list to include the more important figures that Woods glaringly has left out.

]]> By: Blackadder http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1687 Thu, 27 Sep 2007 16:31:33 +0000 http://vox-nova.com/2007/09/24/the-logic-of-profit-and-the-logic-of-equal-distribution/#comment-1687 Fair enough. Can I assume, then, that you have read the primary sources Woods cites?

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