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8 Comments
  1. S.M. Stirling permalink
    July 12, 2008 11:07 pm

    All communities are “imagined communities”. They exist because people think they do, and for no other reason whatsoever.

    Incidentally, the concept of the “nation” has been around for a very, very long time. What do you think William the Conqueror meant when he addressed “All my subjects, both French and English”?

  2. July 12, 2008 11:48 pm

    All communities are “imagined communities”. They exist because people think they do, and for no other reason whatsoever.

    Yes, exactly. You must have read Anderson’s book.

    Incidentally, the concept of the “nation” has been around for a very, very long time.

    Of course. But the concept of “nation-state” has been around for a shorter amount of time.

  3. S.M. Stirling permalink
    July 13, 2008 12:21 am

    “But the concept of “nation-state” has been around for a shorter amount of time.”

    – not significantly, unless one plays silly word-games with terminology.

    The English kingdom of Harald Godwinsson was a nation-state; it was the Kingdom of the English.

    William ruled it as a foreign conqueror. He was a Norman, and (more importantly, and the term usually used at the time), French. Everyone acknowledged this.

    The Roman “res publica” was a nation-state. So was the Judaean monarchy of David.

    Once you get above the tribal level, the nation-state is the ‘natural’ unit.

  4. S.M. Stirling permalink
    July 13, 2008 12:25 am

    And communities are acts of COLLECTIVE imagination; hence they’re political artifacts.

    They exist because people – large numbers of people, over time – think they do; but from the viewpoint of an individual, they’re objective facts — as real as a rock.

    An individual can no more un-make them by refusing to believe in them than he can un-make a rock. It’s just as much an act of crazed hubris to do the one as the other.

    All you can do, individually, is withdraw your loyalty from a collectivity; either honestly, by physically leaving its boundaries, or dishonestly, by not paying the ‘ticket-price’ for membership while retaining the privileges.

  5. July 14, 2008 4:15 pm

    not significantly, unless one plays silly word-games with terminology.

    Any political scientist or historian will tell you that these are not word games. The terms “nation” and “nation-state” refer to two different things.

    Not much else here is worth replying to.

  6. S.M. Stirling permalink
    October 5, 2008 3:11 am

    Any community people believe in is “authentic”, since it is the belief — and the belief alone — that creates community.

    You’re using “authenticity” to mean “community of which I, personally, approve”.

  7. October 5, 2008 3:13 am

    Back again?

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